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02/13/2008 (12:52 pm)

Not Quite “Anonymous,” One Mother Stands Proud Among Them

savemyson.jpg
[editor's note]Above Pic From Australia Protest

We received a gripping account of Sunday’s “Anonymous” protest against the Church of Scientology in a northeast part of the U.S.

I found her story riveting not only because of her honesty, and the similarities between us (we’re both in our late 30’s, both have kids and are happily married and otherwise content people) but also the immediate dark cloud of fear and paranoia we were confronted with the minute we delved into the history of the CoS and how they respond to their critics. I can tell you, if it were not for the strong support of my family, friends and those who share my concerns of the CoS, I would not have had the temerity to pursue the true nature of the Church of Scientology, and certainly not with the vigor and conviction which I have attempted to convey. These are incredibly heady times.

The story had been edited for specifics to protect the identity of the writer:

“Just wanted to let you know that the [Northeast city of US], while conservative as befits our local culture (smile), was WONDERFUL. About 25 met at a nearby [popular coffee shop] at 10:30 a.m. to prep, establish base rules/tactics, and sort of enforce some sense of chain of command. As for demographics, there was one much older gentleman, me (age 39) and almost all others were college students and twenty-somethings. We had had a pre-meet the week before, with about 8 of the earliest responders. We appointed a media contact, volunteered to post flyers, distribute pamphlets, and hide “youfoundthecard.com” cards throughout the area, for the most part. I think I was one of the very few suburban, non-student people, although at least a few were successful and employed college graduates out of school for 6 years, etc.

From the [popular coffee shop] pre-meet, they walked to the local org, about two blocks away. They took position directly across from the org, but found that their rapidly expanding numbers required them to move slightly down the street so as not to block driveways. The chants were in full swing in the larger stretch of free sidewalk when I arrived in a cab, breathless, right at 11 a.m. At that time, there were probably about 40, since many had met at the site. In total, we numbered…. Wait for it… 80 people! That was a fantastic turnout, given that temperatures were in the low 20’s, and the wind was gusting up to 40 mph. I’d say 75 were present at the height, since some people came late or left early. All went smoothly, largely because of some great coordination on the part of the core, and the use of [anon forum] for organization/communication.

Our fearless [event organizer] were magnificent. When we hit 50 people, we split into two groups, one to the east of the org, and one to the west. Then we spread out and took the whole block, with people handing out flyers at the corners, and three groups in between circling, chanting and singing. Unlike many locations, [Northeast city of US] org was operating as usual, we suppose, with a class full or participants clearly visible behind plate glass windows. We were amused that they seemed to be doing some sort of group “head, shoulders, knees, & toes” game, standing up, raising arms and going through various motions. I didn’t see much of that, but many “lulz” were had by the youngsters!

The local staff came out, as expected, and took our photos, called police, and tried to talk the police into making us leave. The police officers were friendly and helpful, and seemed to appreciate our commitment to following rules, and behaving well. They declined to make us leave, but one police officer stayed just inside the CoS lobby, to comfort them, one supposes.

At one point, a Scientologist apparently had to leave early, and she absolutely RAN across the street and to her nearby car, clearly intimidated. As for media coverage… well, we had little. One local television crew, [Northeast city ABC TV affiliate] showed up and interviewed our event organizer, who gave his name as [removed - ANON]. He did a fine job and was not masked, but wore a hat and sunglasses. He spoke well, and we got about 30 seconds on the 6:00 news. A [Northeast City paper] education reporter, who was out covering the lines of parents waiting for magnet school registration, stopped and interviewed [Anon event organizer] and others, but no story appeared in the Monday edition. DisaPOINT-ed! Many cars honked for us, generating “Whoooo!” from our groups each time. A plus for noise factor was that EVERY time we chanted or “Whooo!”-ed, the alarm of a car parked directly before the CoS would go off for a minute or two. It’s like the car was on our side, in a way.

Attire: We were quite understandably very covered up, because the wind was bitter. Gusts were threatening to turn our signs into sails, some signs became ripped where they were so fiercely clenched at the edges, and flyers often had to be chased as they swirled into the intersection on unexpected gusts. I was late because I stopped and bought a less expensive digital camera, batteries, and a memory card, because it was simply too cold to use the digital SLR with zoom without locking up the zoom.

On sudden inspiration, I also bought some $3 oversized gray sweatpants to slip over my jeans, both for bulk in disguise, and to keep my legs from going numb. I’m a mom of two kids, so I’m accustomed to packing lots of gear and hauling it around like a pack horse. Well, my mom died earlier this year, and she happened to be a cold-weather accessory fanatic. From our “give to charity” box, I brought 4 extra pairs of gloves, 3 extra hats, 4 pairs of earmuffs, and a recently purchased 25-count box of Walgreen’s medical masks with elastic loops for ears. I handed all of them out to under-prepared Anons while I was there. The medical masks helped keep our faces warm by holding in the warmth of our breath, so even those who initially refused later tracked me down and asked if I had more. I badgered them, and said that “Mom” had come to make sure they stay warm, if I could. I was really touched, late last night, to see a post on the [Anon forum] one [Northeast] Anon who said, “Mom” is a hero.” It makes me feel a whole lot less lame to know that despite my being unschooled in “memes” and IRC chat, I had some way to contribute.

PERSONAL: I just read a horrible, unfavorable and un-researched article from some Boston blogger/reporter, pretty much calling us jerks for protesting a religion, and not having anything better to do.

Dawn, I’m offended by that — really, truly, deeply offended by his ignorance. I have not undertaken this lightly or impetuously. Maybe there are some who are in it because it’s a popular thing to do, or for the “lulz,” or who don’t understand or believe what these people can and will do to fight any and all critics. I don’t know. Our group seemed incredibly well-informed, disciplined, passionate, cautious and even empathetic toward Scientologists as individuals. You know how I got into this, because you were there kind of at the beginning for me. I thought Scientology was just a harmless but avant garde philosophy, or something, and knew nothing. The Tom Cruise video didn’t give me giggles. It scared me because he is obviously disturbed; someone has done something very wrong to him, and I wanted to know what.

Hundreds of Google searches, followed links, documents read, anonymous e-mail registries made, and comments posted… and here I am. I’m 39 years old, a Midwestern mom of [removed to protect identity], in a very happy marriage with a wonderful man – and I feel as if I’ve fallen into an alternate universe. I had no idea such evil really existed, at least in the United States . I can’t believe they’re allowed to operate here, and so easily subvert the justice system to their advantage, bullying and terrorizing people who merely present balanced articles. As a former reporter, that strikes a very personal fear and fury into my heart. I have agonized, literally cried and shaken with fear, at the thought of deliberately walking into the line of fire with a family at stake. My husband and I have had arguments about why it’s so important that I spend 10 hours a day reading literature on the subject. As a reporter, it was THAT important for me to consider all sides, be fair, include all available information, and there has been a flood recently, including the videos of Miscavige speaking about 2006 accomplishments. My leisure time, personal hygiene, and work/family duties have all taken a big hit for about a month now. I was jumping at shadows, (going “tinfoil”), even ripping open an unexpected package. I received financial information mailed to my home address for a new credit card account in someone else’s name, and of course called the company to inform them of the mistake, destroying the cards/PIN numbers.

It has been very scary, difficult, and stressful. I almost wish I could go back to a time when I knew nothing, because it was easy to know nothing, and fear nothing.

All my friends are mystified by my passion about this, and the lack of support combined with fear to dissuade me. My husband had no interest in any of it, saying I was lending credibility to Scientology by opposing it, and was giving in to “compulsion.”

“They’re whackjobs, and most people are NOT going to even go there.” He said, “You’ve lost your sense of proportion.”

I said, “And you, I’m sad to say, are one of many who will sit on their asses until danger is 10 feet from your front stoop. That’s how these things go so far – underestimating them and not being informed.”

[whole sectioned edited: run in with local Scientology ties, removed for identity protection]

It all seemed sinister and frightening, and I had no support for what I was doing. That woman knew my information and my family info [edited]. I had all but decided to back out. Hubby, who had been giving me a hard time about my “compulsion” surprised me and urged me to go, saying I would forever regret it and feel a loss of self-respect if I didn’t. I was torn. When the video boasting of attacks on funding of mental health care hit YouTube, that was IT.

Why?

Dawn, I’d be dead were it not for anti-depressants. I have fought through depression to lead a successful and happy family life. I’ve lost 150 pounds. I’ve grown in my career and confidence. I have survived and prospered, thanks to psychiatrists, with whom I check in every six months only for appropriate prescriptions. It’s all good. The medicine helped, the therapy helped, and I’m okay.

That’s why the mere THOUGHT that some transparently manipulative bunch of hucksters and psychotics could rig the system against what has been a salvation for me just infuriated me. I cried.

Men don battle armor. Women get their hair done and select killer accessories. So that’s what I did on Thursday. I found a bulky coat among my mom’s things, laid out long underwear, thick socks, warm gloves with non-slip fingertips for handing out flyers, discovered a fabulous and warm hat my mom had never even worn. I even bought some highway patrol mirrored sunglasses. I started assembling all my gear.

On Saturday night/Sunday wee hours, I stayed up until 3:30 a.m. coloring in a sign, which my now-supportive husband had bolted between two sturdy paint-stirrer handles. I designed and printed my own handouts, while watching forums for latest updates, my heart soaring every time someone from Australia posted results from Sydney and Melbourne and Adelaide and Perth . I got 2 hours of sleep, got up, and headed out with sign and all my goodies for fellow protesters. My kids had picked up on the tension, and asked me if I was going to be safe. Husband: “Of course she’ll be safe. This is America , and we can speak our minds here. Not everyone is so lucky to live in a free society.”

I drove [to NE city] by myself, not sure where I was going, to join what might only have been 6 other people, to my knowledge, in a protest of what I perceive to be a pitiless and vicious group.

Prepared though I was, I walked on numb feet for 2 hours, chanting, gripping my sign with hands whose fingers had passed numb and begun to feel strangely hot. The two-inch band of exposed skin between my sunglasses and scarf soon became prickly and windburned. When I tucked my chin low, my exhaled breath would condense and freeze on the lenses immediately, sometimes blinding me and causing me to stumble. I hid behind the windbreak of my sign, struggling to hold it when a sudden gust threatened to send it sailing.

As cold as I was, I knew others were worse off. I scanned for exposed heads, hands, mouths, ears, and handed my sign off to others often, so I could dig in my “goodie bag.” I gave out all the gloves, masks, hats, earmuffs… hoping all of us could make it right up until the end. Those “kids,” who are really adults, but still young to me, shivered and shook, teeth chattering, hands clenched in pockets. Signs were carried by others while the makers warmed their hands in nylon-lined pockets that offered little warmth. College students and twenty-somethings aren’t wealthy, and their clothes are chosen more for style than warmth – they were freezing, but they STAYED. They were stoic, but of good cheer. They laughed when the car alarm went off. When traffic died off for a moment or two, sometimes we all trudged in circles, silently, huddling behind one another to block the fierce, cutting wind.

Was it worth it? Walking a frigid, windy and relatively empty street in [NE City] for 2 hours when I could’ve been home warming my fingers before the fire, reading the Sunday paper with my kids and husband?

Hell, yeah, it was worth it. We made a stand. Even if Cos is still standing strong 6 months from now, a year from now, I’ll always know that I didn’t stand by and do nothing. Evil won’t prosper because THIS woman looked away, and got her nails done instead.

I feel such tenderness for the Anonymous generation. What a lovely surprise they are – they are not disaffected, and it’s a mistake to assume from their manner that they are. They really care. And they’re so damn smart. (except not about the cold thing). Their videos delight me. The way they collaborate freely and express creative ideas, only to retract them with an obscenity when they thud to the floor. Their jokes are clannish and irreverent. I am not one of them, but I appreciate them, and they offer me the “cover” of numbers united for a common cause. I’ve learned some of their language, but would not use it, because I have no desire to be 20 again. I’m a mature woman, fighting what I think is an important war.

We’ll be back for March 15th, and some will carry whistles to take the strain off our voices. We don’t know if it will be 78 degrees of 28 degrees, March in [NE state in US] being what it is. But we’re planning, setting up meetings, discussing media messages and clothing. They’re kind to me, and don’t treat me like a “wanna-be,” which would send me home immediately. We may be back for 4/15, maybe doing a flash mob at the latest closing post office, handing out flyers to late-filing taxpayers. “You pay taxes… why doesn’t the “Church” of $cientology?” Who knows? It’s evolving, but it will come together when it needs to.

I showed my children the “Mom is a hero” post, just to show them that I accomplished a little something, and all that lost attention was not in vain. They were proud.

So am I.

It’s been said many times, but I’ll say it once more:

We are everyone. We are legion. Expect us.”

Posted by D
Filed under: Scientology

88 Comments

  1. “Mom” truly IS a hero.

    “All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men/woman to remain quite.”

    Comment by RandomComment — February 13, 2008 @ 2:42 pm

    2.  

  2. “Mom” is pretty much frightened of rainbows. Peaceable assembly is part and parcel of the U.S. Constitution. If “mom’ and others wish to peaceably assemble, that’s lawful action. Sending (probably fake) anthrax in the mail, that’s not peaceable. DDoS attacks are not peaceable.

    Comment by Terryeo — February 13, 2008 @ 3:05 pm

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  3. Terryeo, who are you to say that white powder was sent by “anonymous”, or any critic of scientology?

    Are you aware that the “Church” framed Paulette Cooper by stealing a blank sheet of paper with her fingerprint on it and typing up a bomb threat against themselves? Writing a book is also allowed under the Constitution, but the “church” almost completely destroyed Paulteet Coopers life…and they’ve done the same to others.

    Given that history, and the fact that they accuse the protesters of sending the white powder at every turn, it seems quite possible (even probable) that they sent that powder to themselves.

    This woman has good reason to fear the “church”. Get yourself educated before you comment.

    Comment by Sean — February 13, 2008 @ 3:33 pm

    4.  

  4. Terryeo, if you have information that Anonymous actually sent the anthrax then I’m going
    to have to ask if you have contacted law enforcement officials. It’d be obstruction of
    justice on your part if you failed to disclose this information to them I think. So please do this immediately before you stifle the investigation, unless this is a lie and your just making it all up.

    Comment by bob dobbs — February 13, 2008 @ 3:38 pm

    5.  

  5. Terryeo is a longtime scientology member who posts to all of these kinds of stories on the net. Google his name and he says the same silly stuff all the time.

    “Mom” , you are a hero as were everyone there that very cold day. How cool to see two generations of a family fighting together to stop the abuses of scientology. I only hope there won’t be a need for a third generation to join later.

    jerald

    jerald-jayyr@hotmail.com

    Comment by JeraldR — February 13, 2008 @ 3:44 pm

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  6. I liked what Arnie Lerma said about the DDoS attacks in his GlossLip radio interview.

    “It was actually preventing a fraud in progress.”

    Comment by Anonymous — February 13, 2008 @ 4:01 pm

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  7. I’d be surprised if a lot of moms weren’t watching this.
    Of course, we are really concerned about what was brought to our attention by our adult children, and what they’re involved in.
    Not that Anonymous seems to need any help!
    I’m relieved and impressed by that huge protest being so peaceful and orderly. I’m not sure us parents can have such calm rallies for political stuff. Everything I’ve seen is really positive, as far as what Anonymous is doing now. They’re really using our democracy to their advantage.

    Comment by Another Mom — February 13, 2008 @ 5:33 pm

    8.  

  8. She is much braver than us who hide behind masks =/

    Comment by anon — February 13, 2008 @ 5:34 pm

    9.  

  9. Let see if I get this story straight. It starts with a picture of a woman with a sign which says “Innocent children are being brainwashed. My son is only 7″. On her shirt, it says “I am here to save my son”.

    Ok. So obviously, you would think that she has a personal story with Scientology and that Scientology has done something to her son…not.

    Reading the story, she found out about Scientology a month ago reading stuff on Internet. That’s the whole of her personal experience with Scientology.

    Yup, she is a mom. So are millions of other women, including scientologists. How is that in any way relevant? It’s just a PR trick, the same way as her sign is a FRAUD. (she is making people believe she has legitimate first hand reasons to attack my religion when in fact, she had no contact with it whatsoever)

    What does she actually know about Scientology? Nothing. Never read a book about it. Probably never even met a scientologist. She just read stories online about it and as an ex-journalist, feels that she has done her job of “finding out”. Is that a joke?

    Oh, there is some allusion to a run-in with Scientology, which is deleted (convenient, isn’t it?). However given what she explained before, the only way for her to have a run-in with Scientology was for her to attack them. Then she plays the victim card “see what they are doing to me”.

    What else do we know about this woman? By her own admission, she survived only thanks to psychiatric treatments…in other words she has probably been high on psychotropic drugs for the last few years.

    Hero?

    More like a psychotic, hate-filled woman who can’t bear the thought that others are trying to improve themselves instead of wallowing in self pity and psychotropic drugs.

    Comment by Sylver — February 13, 2008 @ 5:52 pm

    10.  

  10. Um…the photo used as illustration was taken in Sydney, Australia. The person mentioned in the article was in a cold climate in the USA.

    Do they not teach reading comprehension in those COS classes?

    Comment by k — February 13, 2008 @ 6:02 pm

    11.  

  11. Sylver, the picture is very clearly marked as having been from the Sydney protest, and the woman pictured is in YouTube videos talking about her son being still in Scientology. This is someone else’s story. The only commonality is that they are mothers.

    It’s no surprise that even a reporter is afraid to talk to Scientology — look what happened to Sweeney, Time Magazine, Paulette Cooper and anyone else who tried to do independent investigative journalism.

    What’s your response to this woman’s fear of your “religion”? To tell her that you mean her no harm and wish her well in life? Nope. Your response is to call her “psychotic” and “hate-filled.” Where is there hate? Really? Everyone knows that Co$ has no pity, so if she were looking for it from you, she’d be barking up the wrong tree, right?

    It’s obvious that there are three kinds of people in the world, according to Sylver: Scientologists (”good guys”), critics (”bad guys”, SP’s, drug addicts… all sorts of vile accusations) and “raw meat” (potential converts/conscripts).

    Right now, the largest group is the last. But when the whole world is divvied up into those groups, after being exposed to the real goals of Scientology, Sylver, which group do you think will be largest?

    My money is on “critics,” and your “hateful” response is what will make it so.

    Comment by Hellooo Sylver! — February 13, 2008 @ 6:03 pm

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  12. Thank you k, for pointing out the obvious to the Scilon in No.9.

    Hey I am getting the hang of these memes :)

    Comment by d — February 13, 2008 @ 6:05 pm

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  13. I don’t hide behind a mask. I simply wear it.

    I, like many anons have no personally vested interest in these protests. I don’t want to be a face in or of a movement, I don’t want credit for doing something right that should have happened long long ago. I simply want to have some fun, and if I can do that, and accomplish something worthwhile in the process, I’m fucking happy to do so.

    I say let those with stories to tell be the faces at the front. Let those who’ve spent their lives fighting for this cause have their names in the papers. Anonymous wants no glory, we don’t want our names in the history books. We simply want to see justice done, free speech protected, and have a few laughs along the way.

    We mean to see this through to the end. But once our goals are reached, we will simply fade into the background and continue to do what we’ve always done. At least until the next time someone pisses us off.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 13, 2008 @ 6:07 pm

    14.  

  14. Amen to that!

    Also, Sylver, you suck at PR spin. Three types of people will read this. Anon, Scientologists and the normal readership. Your post obviously isn’t going to affect the first two so let’s look at the third. Now, this is the online equivalent of a gossip magazine. Do you know who reads those? Women. I’m going to bet a very large number of them are mothers themselves. Now, they just spent 15 minutes reading an emotionally charged account of a person most of them can probably identify with and what do you do? Call this person a psychopath. I’d guess most readers either stopped right there or took oposition to everything else you said after that. In conclusion: lrn2propaganda

    Comment by Anonymous — February 13, 2008 @ 7:15 pm

    15.  

  15. Sylver, nobody is “attacking your religion”. We’re protesting the fact that you’re probably up to your eyeballs in debt right now from trying to go up the ranks in a corrupt pyramid scheme that uses empty promises and pseudo-medicine to lure people in and hurt them, just to turn around and say they’re the only people who can help.

    Also, learn the difference between an antidepressant and a hallucinogen before you make your idiotic conjecture. Thank you.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 13, 2008 @ 8:07 pm

    16.  

  16. although it’s only similar in the sense that she was a mother also, a woman came to our protest. She said that a few years ago she had issues with her life, and went to this “Life Improvement Center” (as it’s advertised) for help. 100$ later, she read the first lesson of many given to her, only to find in disgust that they were labeling her handicapped son as a “suppressive person”, and that she should cut off all ties with him.
    We made a small interview with it, and have it on record. If you’d like, I could post it on youtube and link to it here (:

    Comment by Anonymous — February 13, 2008 @ 8:24 pm

    17.  

  17. Terryeo, those are some nasty, insensitive comments – this woman should be commended for her bravery to stand up for her son, especially when she puts herself in so much danger.

    I didn’t realise Scientology was such a cold hearted ‘religion’.

    Comment by lilly — February 13, 2008 @ 8:38 pm

    18.  

  18. Also, Another Mom: My mother freaked out when she learned I was to be taking a bus in order to meet with strangers and protest something she had almost never heard of. She had me call her several times (before/after the protest, before/after my bus rides, before/after other things, etc…).
    She was very worried, and I can’t exactly blame her. however, we feel that our cause is right, and that the actions of the church of scientology need to come to a stop.
    We are anonymous, we are legion. we do not forgive, we do not forget. expect us, 3/15!

    Comment by Anonymous — February 13, 2008 @ 8:42 pm

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  19. Anon #16, yes, I would love to have that. Please.

    Comment by D — February 13, 2008 @ 9:08 pm

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  20. Also HihoSylver, don’t you dare say another word about the woman in my story (as has been pointed out, not the woman in the photo). I consider her a friend and I will not sit here and let you malign her character. She is a kind, warm and caring person.

    You on the other hand need some more ethics auditing. Shame on you.

    Comment by D — February 13, 2008 @ 9:12 pm

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  21. Dawn. Did I ever tell you that I love ya?

    (Aka, awesome work and thanks for helping spread the truth)

    Comment by LRonHubbub — February 13, 2008 @ 10:19 pm

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  22. anon #14.. You are right on. Until this site came forward with the information posted in regards to the COS, I was totally unaware of how the “church” operated. All I was aware of was that Tom Cruise, Jonh Travolta and other stars were Scientologists. Until a few weeks ago, if someone told me the dangers behind this cult, I would have laughed it off. I now see this is far from funny. I believe we all have the freedom to worship as we so desire. This “religion”, in my brief education over the past few weeks, has an air of sinister motives. I applaud all who have the strength to stand up for what they believe and fight for causes they believe in. ( not just against the COS..any cause) I think the comments posted by Sylver and Terryeo are an insight into the mentality of COS.

    Comment by sillygrrl — February 13, 2008 @ 10:47 pm

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  23. which are, as far as I’m concerned, very sick and twisted. I wish them happiness in their “religion”.

    Comment by sillygrrl — February 13, 2008 @ 10:49 pm

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  24. #22
    This.

    Scilons got away with their shit because it WAS so crazy, it WAS so over the top, that anyone hearing about it dismissed it out of hand. I mean that kind of shit doesn’t really happen now does it? They’re just conspiracy nuts, next thing you know they’ll say aliens are taking their brainwaves!

    The thing is, it is true. The disconnection policies, the harassment of critics, framing poor Paulette, their insane desire to demolish psychiatry, the fact that no matter how happy and well adjusted you are, if you take a “stress test” you’ll be told you’re depressed.

    But the average person hearing that for the first time simply can’t accept that it’s true. They believe that if it were true it would have been stopped long ago. They trust that their government would protect them. And so they think the one claiming this to be true must be lying.

    This is how they’ve been able to operate for so long.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 13, 2008 @ 11:39 pm

    25.  

  25. I’ve always loved (by which I mean hated) the type of circular reasoning inherent in “I won’t do anything about this because if it was true someone would have done something already.”

    Comment by Anonymous — February 14, 2008 @ 12:07 am

    26.  

  26. This article is eye opening to many who read this! Mom is right about them.

    Brainwashing people into believe they are actually a religion. What the hell, who the hell are they worshiping? Jesus? No. Buddha? No. Muhamad? None of them. Their so-called religion is not real at all. They just try to get money off of people.

    They try to lure you in especially in a Mall. With those darn stress tests, also known as auditing sessions. Making you hold this machine called the e-meter. I would recommend to Google it, or Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-meter read up about it or look up about it on youtube here: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=B9sDANzyOi4

    Then they would be telling you that you have a problem and need help from them. A bunch of BS. I even tried it once, first the stress test, then they try to get you to buy some of their stuff, also try to lure you by giving them your information and go to their so-called “meetings” that they have. If you turn your back against them, they’ll do anything in your power to shut you down. Even black mail you.

    So don’t believe a word that they tell you. It’s the biggest scam of the world.

    Comment by T — February 14, 2008 @ 12:15 am

    27.  

  27. The best way to go unnoticed is to act so crazy that people ignore you.

    The crazy guy on the street corner yelling and arguing with his shoes and dragging a bike tire on a dog leash…can you tell me what he was wearing?

    Comment by k — February 14, 2008 @ 12:17 am

    28.  

  28. Oops, I meant them not your. If you turn your back against them, they’ll do anything in “their” power to shut you down.

    Comment by T — February 14, 2008 @ 12:19 am

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  29. Public Service Announcement:

    Terryeo and Sylver are notorious pro-scientology spammers. If you google “terryeo scientology” or “sylver scientology” you will see what I’m talking about.

    Terryeo was even _banned_ from wikipedia because he constantly edited out any negative references of scientology. He would also put in pro-scientology information without sources.

    Sounds like a cool “church” to me *cough* cult *cough*

    Comment by Munonimiz — February 14, 2008 @ 12:24 am

    30.  

  30. Afraid of rainbows? (laughing grimly) CoS is no rainbow.

    Scientologists just don’t get it — the Paulette Cooper Operation Freakout and Operation Snow White cases are well-publicized and becoming very widely known.

    Any informed person should fear them. CoS has abused our liberal tolerance of belief systems to cover up illegal acts and intimidate critics by calling them “bigots”. Just as one can dislike a single person or subset of people based on their behavior, regardless of ethnic identification, society can discipline a group that perpetrates illegal acts, even if it is a “religion.”

    In no way has CoS publicly acknowledged these acts, apologized for them, made reparations, and reformed itself. CoS denies, denies, denies, and attacks anyone who mentions it, despite documented truth of the findings.

    Any organization can have a few bad apples, but CoS practices these behaviors as a matter of policy. Several were convicted of criminal conspiracy, while “on the job” and under orders dictated by founder L. Ron Hubbard’s sick writings.

    Anyone who is perfectly happy with their current belief system should fear CoS — CoS wants to “clear the planet” (recruit us ALL), dispose of those resistant, and achieve “global obliteration” of psychiatry and SP’s (critics) altogether. They don’t tell the public members that, but it’s in L. Ron’s writings, and in videos available on Youtube right now. And OT’s openly brag about their intentions in some of those videos.

    Yes, it’s that bad.
    And yes, each one of you readers needs to research it, make up you own mind, and do your part to protect society.
    Please. Please.

    Comment by A Matter of Time — February 14, 2008 @ 12:43 am

    31.  

  31. Got it on the photo. I stand corrected on that. It was disingenuous from the article’s author rather than from the “Mom”.

    Would you care to correct me about the rest?

    She says “My husband and I have had arguments about why it’s so important that I spend 10 hours a day reading literature on the subject. As a reporter, it was THAT important for me to consider all sides, be fair, include all available information,…”
    …but not important enough to spend a few bucks for a book on the subject and actually study it.

    She states: “I have survived and prospered, thanks to psychiatrists, with whom I check in every six months only for appropriate prescriptions.”

    In other words, she is on drugs most of the time and can not even conceive of a life without them. Awesome example, is it?

    She also states “My leisure time, personal hygiene, and work/family duties have all taken a big hit for about a month now. I was jumping at shadows, (going “tinfoil”), even ripping open an unexpected package.”

    Hmmm. Dare I say she is extremely well balanced?

    What was really done to her, for her to be so afraid? Nothing. She just read stuff on the Internet and figured we were coming for her. Can you spell “Guilty conscience”?

    “So much danger”, “line of fire”,… What the *** are you guys talking about?

    The only way to get into trouble with the church is to attack it. And the only thing you have to fear is us exposing your crimes.

    The highest penalty in Scientology ethics is to be kicked out from the Church and forbidden to receive services.

    “Also, learn the difference between an antidepressant and a hallucinogen before you make your idiotic conjecture. Thank you.”
    I didn’t say anything about “hallucinogen”, I said “psychotropic drugs”. According to the Webster dictionary, “psychotropic” means “having an altering effect on the mind, as tranquilizers, hallucinogens, etc.”

    Psychiatric prescriptions are not candies, they are mind altering drugs, by definition. And they are not innocent at all. Many of them end up as street drugs after a few years.

    Comment by Sylver — February 14, 2008 @ 12:45 am

    32.  

  32. Yeah dude, I just scored some wicked Prozac from my dealer, this shit is the bomb-yo!

    Sylver, I’m all for intelligent discourse, but sometimes grownups must tell children to be quiet since they are not mentally mature enough to follow along in a discussion. So they of course keep pestering them and since they are yet unable too grasp the most basic concepts of the conversation, so the grown folks must send them to their room.

    I challenge you to have your “churches” methods peer reviewed, and tested by scientific method, double blind and all. When you can do that, and provide empirical evidence that an e-meter and auditing function to aid the mentally ill the same way psychiatric methods and medicines have been shown to do, then you can speak again.

    Until then Sylver, grown folks are talking now. Go to your room.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 14, 2008 @ 12:57 am

    33.  

  33. Hello, Sylver. How are you? Did you have a good day today?

    I know we seem like the bad guys here, and I know you believe in your heart that we’re wrong, wrong, wrong.

    And I just wanted to apologize for that. We’re clearly causing you distress, and upsetting you, and I promise, that is not our purpose. You are allowed to believe whatever you want, you are allowed to think whatever you want. You are allowed to be hate-filled and bitter and broken.

    I know you won’t believe me, but take a moment to calm down. Take some deep breaths and remember: we’re not going to hurt you. We don’t want to hurt you.

    If you end up sent to ethics counselling or RPF, or are cold because you couldn’t pay the month’s electricity bill, or, hell, you’re just bummed because you have a thing for a girl who’s not into Scientology, I assure you: it’s not our fault. We’re not doing any of it, we’re not stopping you from your beliefs, and if you do end up banned from a website, it’s because we don’t have the time for you.

    But that doesn’t mean we don’t care. You’ve been doing this a long time, and, I know, it’s your life and it’s all you know, and you HATE us.

    But we don’t hate you, and I, personally, would be happy to get to know you as a person, instead of as a nebulous entity that only shows up to spout anger- and hate-filled messages.

    Relax a little, okay? Take the time to smile. Is it cold outside? Wrap yourself up in a warm blanket and have a cup of hot chocolate. Is it nice out? Go outside for a while and lie down on some grass. It’ll do you some good.

    PS:
    I do mean it, I’d like to see if we can be friends, even though I know you hate me and think I’m evil and all that stuff. I’m still a human being, you know, and I haven’t forgotten that you are too.

    – anon210089@gmail.com

    (PS: This applies to you too, Terryeo. I know you say some hateful things, and like antagonizing people, but I’m sure you’re still human inside, and it must get lonely going places just to rile everyone else up.)

    Comment by Anonymous — February 14, 2008 @ 1:12 am

    34.  

  34. Just pointing out: “What was really done to her, for her to be so afraid? Nothing. She just read stuff on the Internet and figured we were coming for her. Can you spell “Guilty conscience”?” is a round-about way of saying…

    WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES?!

    Comment by Anonymous — February 14, 2008 @ 1:46 am

    35.  

  35. “Just pointing out: “What was really done to her, for her to be so afraid? Nothing. She just read stuff on the Internet and figured we were coming for her. Can you spell “Guilty conscience”?” is a round-about way of saying…

    WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES?!”

    No. It is not a round-about way to saying “WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES?”

    It’s rather direct…and the question stands.

    Explain why a person would completely freak out in the way she describes after simply reading stories on the Net?

    Comment by Sylver — February 14, 2008 @ 2:44 am

    36.  

  36. CoS treatment of perceived critics like Paulette Cooper — which includes any fair and balanced reporter who doesn’t swallow Scientology WHOLE — is… hell on earth, created deliberately. For no good reason.

    Religions should be above that.

    All researchers have reason to fear CoS. Now seems like as good a time as any to say so. It could be any reporter assigned the story, and plunged inadvertently into absolute hell.

    This conversation hasn’t made CoS look any friendlier.

    Sylver seems to be saying nothing this mom said counts because she is unbalanced or evil or somehow brainwashed? Because I think that’s a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

    She takes a pill that helps her get through her day, and presumably to function well. Period. End of story.

    You, on the other hand, pay $250 & up per hour, several hours a month, year-round, to sit in a chair holding onto a metal-handled jump rope with a little volt-meter in the middle. That’s how you find out what’s going on in your own mind/spirit.

    Can we not play the “who’s craziest” game, because it will not go well for you. I don’t want to be nasty to you, just you to get how ineffective that tactic will be. It’s a pot/kettle thing.

    You’re discriminating against people with conditions they didn’t ask for, and you’re even trying to keep them from getting help.

    As a pious Scientologist, shouldn’t you pity her for being some sort of degraded being, by your standards? Do you feel empathy toward those less fortunate than you, and respect their beingness? If she’s so pathetic, where’s the mercy, the kindness, the compassion? Got any?

    Apparently not.

    Comment by Gold — February 14, 2008 @ 2:51 am

    37.  

  37. When Scientology couldn’t find any crimes, they framed Paulette Cooper and had her thrown in jail.

    For writing a well-researched book with documented facts they didn’t want known.

    That’s why people are afraid, Sylver. Look it up.

    How is YOUR conscience?

    Comment by Bilbo — February 14, 2008 @ 2:55 am

    38.  

  38. Based on documents recently obtained by FREEDOM under the Freedom of Information Act, as of September 16, 1993, 28,623 reports of adverse reactions to Prozac have been received by the FDA. These included such effects as delirium, hallucinations, convulsions, violent hostility, aggression, psychosis, 1,885 suicide attempts and 1,734 deaths – 1,089 by suicide.

    That’s Prozac alone up to 1993. And those are facts, not drug-induced persecution complexes. You can use the Freedom of Information act and get the data yourself from the FDA.

    Anonymous, is that the kind of peer-reviewed, double blind science you are talking about?

    You are totally right. We have absolutely nothing in common with that.

    Now the kid will go and get some work done while you “grown ups” figure out some other ways to cover up your crimes.

    Comment by Sylver — February 14, 2008 @ 2:58 am

    39.  

  39. Dude, you’re so right, Prozac is awful. But there’s a far worse chemical on the loose out there. Dihydrogen Monoxide. And NOBODY is doing anything about that. It causes EVERYTHING.

    http://www.dhmo.org/

    Listen fucker, does that statistic actually make any sense to you?

    1,885 suicide attempts
    1,734 deaths
    1,089 by suicide

    Wow, so you mean depressed people tried to or did kill themselves despite the medication they were taking? Wow! Lets ban this shit!

    Your logic is flawed. Psychiatric treatments are just that, treatment. It helps people live a better life, and the effectiveness of that treatment depends on the commitment of the patient to following treatment. It’s not a miracle cure and isn’t presented as one.

    It is however proven in clinical trial to be effective enough that a great deal of people live better lives thanks to such drugs. I again challenge you to demonstrate that “auditing” can claim the same. Lets see some trials, the scientific method will prove who’s right. Oh, that’s right, it already did! The FDA conducted trials and declared the e-meter a sham! They even said that you had to put a warning label on it stating that it was not intended for medical use.

    Oh by the way, before I head to bed, care to list the number of people who were helped to live a happier healthier life thanks to anti-depressants? Or would seeing such numbers dwarf the problematic cases shatter your world view?

    Out of the millions world wide who are helped every year by psychiatric drugs, a few thousand are not. Oh dear, it must be evil. Would you condemn heart surgery or chemotherapy as easily just because it couldn’t help everyone who had it?

    Comment by Anonymous — February 14, 2008 @ 3:25 am

    40.  

  40. CO$ sends itself white powder in an attempt to defame the good work of Anonymous.

    Now they’re saying that they’re receiving bomb threats from Anonymous members… This stinks of bullshit CO$ PR spin.

    Comment by L0LWHUT — February 14, 2008 @ 4:36 am

    41.  

  41. Notwithstanding your use of the F* word, I find it disturbing to see how easily you brush aside over a thousand suicides, especially when you realize that these are only the folks for whom a complaint was filed to the FDA.

    Real figures are much much higher.

    By the Government Accounting Office’s own admissions, reported FDA Adverse Drug Events only reflect an estimated 1%, to a conservative 10% of actual events, and “are unlikely to be representative of the much larger number of unreported events.” (“Adverse Drug Events – the Magnitude of Health Risk is Uncertain Because of Limited Incidence Date”, Jan. 2000; GAO/HEHS-00-21)

    In other words, the real figure is likely to be around 50,000 suicides, and 10 times as many cases of major side effects.

    Now, may I remind you that we are merely talking about Prozac. Other SSRI-type drugs are not included in these figures.

    Sorry, but with these kind of kill rates, you are soon going to run out of people to live “healthier, happier lives”.

    Was it because these people were already depressed, as you would have us believe?

    Lilly’s own scientists beg to differ:

    August 2, 1978, when only three trials were underway, minutes of a meeting of the Fluoxetine (Prozac) Project Team read: “There have been a fairly large number of reports of adverse reactions… Another depressed patient developed psychosis… Akathisia and restlessness were reported in some patients.” A similar meeting held 10 days earlier stated, “…some patients have converted from severe depression to agitation within a few days; in one case the agitation was marked and the patient had to be taken off [the] drug.” The minutes further state, “…in future studies the use of benzodiazepines to control the agitation will be permitted.” From that point on, Lilly’s trial subjects were put on tranquillizers to get them over the akathisia experienced by some in the early days on the drug. Those who developed akathisia or who had any suicidal tendencies were excluded from the trial data on the basis that they would otherwise obscure the results of the drug’s success in treating depression.

    Lilly internal documents, May 25, 1984 – Upon examing Prozac trial results, the German licensing authority (the Bundes Gesundheit Amt (BGA)) issued a letter stating: “During the treatment with the preparation [Prozac], 16 suicide attempts were made, two of these with success. As patients with a risk of suicide were excluded from the studies, it is probable that this high proportion can be attributed to an action of the preparation [Prozac].

    When Prozac was originally passed by the FDA, At least five out of 10 of the members on the FDA’s Psychopharmacologic Drugs Advisory Committee had conflicts of interest based on business dealings with manufacturers of antidepressant drugs – including Lilly – totaling a minimum of $1,108,587.

    Could that explain why they passed the drug neglecting the fact that 27 people died in the clinical trials? (and they were selected by Lilly to start with)

    Today, thousands of corpses later, the FDA was forced to admit that “A causal role for antidepressants in inducing suicidality has been established in pediatric trials.”

    In other words “we have found that antidepressant are actually a cause for suicide, rather than a cure for it”.

    Explain that away. And while you are at it, also explain why you are so concerned about a few deaths related to Scientology over 50 years, while you brush aside several thousands of deaths caused by psychiatric drugs?

    You sell them, don’t you?

    Comment by Sylver — February 14, 2008 @ 6:18 am

    42.  

  42. When exactly did this turn into a discussion of drugs and the FDA? Changing the subject much? Anonymous has one beef at the moment. And thats the abuses of your church. Big Pharma will have to be dealt with some other time. The fact remains that while pharma helps SOME of its patients Scientology really helps NONE and generally costs a lot more to the individual.

    Atleast Pharma is being monitored somewhat. Who monitors Dianetics? Who monitors the RPF? Who monitors the conditions for Sea Org members?

    And please, you can’t honestly believe that every critic is on the payroll of psychiatry. Regular people just happen to have a problem with harrassment, slavelabour and brainwashing.

    Admit it, you hate working for OSA and want out. Burt dont dare since you have built your life around Scientology. There are people out there willing to help you. You have familymembers that want to talk to you again. Take the chance! Blow and rejoin the real world, you will finally find peace of mind!

    We are waiting for you.

    Comment by Swenonimous — February 14, 2008 @ 8:24 am

    43.  

  43. We miss you, Sylver.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 14, 2008 @ 9:21 am

    44.  

  44. “Admit it, you hate working for OSA and want out. Burt dont dare since you have built your life around Scientology.”

    Poor guess. I don’t work for OSA (I would be proud to, but that’s not what I do currently)

    I used to be in the Sea Org but routed out a few years ago, so I am just a regular parishioner.

    However, my personal experience means I know a think or 2 about the conditions in the Sea Org, on the RPF, and how “difficult” it is to leave. (a message to the folks who handle these things and a bit of paperwork)

    The Sea Org is an intense commitment, but it is important and a rewarding experience. And it certainly bears no relationship to the horror stories you guys promote.

    “There are people out there willing to help you. You have family members that want to talk to you again. Take the chance!”

    There are a lot of people out there willing to help me.

    Thankfully, for most of them, “helping me” means respecting my rights to make my own choices in life rather than trying to mold me to their ideas of “normal”.

    I am in pretty good terms with most of my family, whether scientologists or not.

    Most of the scientologists running in trouble with their families owe it to the lies you people spread, so, in their name, thanks for nothing.

    “Blow and rejoin the real world, you will finally find peace of mind! We are waiting for you.”

    You might have to wait a while. I don’t intend to sunk that low any time soon.

    “Anonymous has one beef at the moment. And thats the abuses of your church. Big Pharma will have to be dealt with some other time.”

    Oh, but wait, one person who died of an accident in a Church of Scientology 12 years ago is certainly a more pressing matter than millions of kids on drugs or thousands of suicides in the name of a multi-billion dollar industry.

    Perhaps you should rethink your priorities.

    You would…if you weren’t in the business of protecting that multi billion dollars industry.

    Comment by Sylver — February 14, 2008 @ 11:00 am

    45.  

  45. Good point at 32, about $cientology methods not being backed up by peer-reviewed scientific studies.

    Further to that, aren’t OT 7 and 8 $cientologists supposed to at least have the potential for special powers? Funny how not one of them has taken up James Randi (randi.org) on his $1 million challenge. Sounds like an easy way for Mike Rinder or David Miscarriage or John Travolta to earn big bucks for their “religion.”

    Comment by Narcissus — February 14, 2008 @ 11:05 am

    46.  

  46. “Oh, but wait, one person who died of an accident in a Church of Scientology 12 years ago is certainly a more pressing matter …” Blah blah blah …

    No.

    Try to pay attention, man. This is about $cientology’s suppression of free speech and the harm it has done to countless people. This is about $cientology’s Operation Freakout, Operation Snow White, bullying, harassment, malicious litigation, Fair Game, R2-45, “disconnect”, etc.

    People have been saying that repeatedly, but you’re being willfully ignorant.

    You’re trying to change the subject. We can see right through your tactic.

    Comment by Narcissus — February 14, 2008 @ 11:18 am

    47.  

  47. Sylver,

    I have a question for you. What level OT are you? Are you clear yet? Have all the claims made by L. Ron Hubbard come true for you?

    I do not begrudge you that you may have found solace and help in the CoS or through Dianetics. There are all sorts of methods to help people better themselves through psychoanalysis, my concern is in ONE organization’s decision to make a singular, unilateral decision for the rest of the planet. What works for you, may not work for me. Who gave the CoS the right to make medical decisions for me?

    Because we all saw David Miscaviage on tape stating emphatically that the CoS is going to clear the planet and wage a war on psychiatry. Talk about bigotry and discrimination.

    Seriously, I would like to hear your thoughts on these points. Otherwise you are here to troll and drop bombs without any intention of following them up.

    Comment by d — February 14, 2008 @ 11:40 am

    48.  

  48. Sylver, this is not how Debate works. You don’t simply ignore the oppositions points and then attack on a new front.

    But since you seem to be incapable of doing that I’ll simply apply your own tactics against you.

    So, lets talk about hypocrisy! Why is it that you willingly accept the FDA’s statistics and statements when it supports your belief system, ie. these drugs have some bad effects. Yet, you totally ignore the FDA statistics and approval of said same drugs?

    You wave around negative statistics like gospel from the same federal agency who has said your e-meter is nothing but a toy, the same agency who approved the use of the very pharmaceuticals you’re preaching against? Fail! Or in your language, Flunk!

    Comment by Anonymous — February 14, 2008 @ 1:20 pm

    49.  

  49. “So, lets talk about hypocrisy! Why is it that you willingly accept the FDA’s statistics and statements when it supports your belief system, ie. these drugs have some bad effects. Yet, you totally ignore the FDA statistics and approval of said same drugs?”

    Thousands of corpses…and you call those “bad effects”?

    First, the statistics I mentioned were not willingly published by the FDA. They were obtained through the Freedom of Information Act and we had to use the legal system to get them to release these data.

    Second, these are facts. I don’t care much what the FDA think about it. Thousand of suicides directly linked to Prozac. It’s not a matter of “opinion”.

    I personally think the FDA is corrupt and I don’t value their opinion much for that reason. However, they do collect data, and are forced to file the complaints they receive. And when these data are available, I can make my own opinions, so I don’t need them to tell me what to think about it.

    I don’t need anyone to tell me that there is something wrong when a thousand suicides are reported about a single drug.

    The FDA and the e-Meter. This seems to puzzle you, but the FDA is absolutely right. The e-Meter does not cure anything…and it’s not supposed to.

    The e-Meter is a measuring device. It measures electric resistance in the body. By itself, it does nothing to help the person. You could hold the cans of an e-Meter for a century and not experience the slightest relief.

    This was clearly explained by LRH long before the FDA ever ran any test on it, and we would have been very surprised if they had found it an efficient cure for any disease.

    To make a comparison, it’s like an X-Ray machine. It shows you where the problem is … and like a X-ray machine, it doesn’t fix the problem.

    So given that the FDA’s statement is true, I don’t have a problem with it.

    Does that explain better my position on that subject?

    Comment by Sylver — February 14, 2008 @ 2:50 pm

    50.  

  50. “So, lets talk about hypocrisy! Why is it that you willingly accept the FDA’s statistics and statements when it supports your belief system, ie. these drugs have some bad effects. Yet, you totally ignore the FDA statistics and approval of said same drugs?”

    Thousands of corpses…and you call those “bad effects”?

    First, the statistics I mentioned were not willingly published by the FDA. They were obtained through the Freedom of Information Act and we had to use the legal system to get them to release these data.

    Second, these are facts. I don’t care much what the FDA think about it. Thousand of suicides directly linked to Prozac. It’s not a matter of “opinion”.

    I personally think the FDA is corrupt and I don’t value their opinion much for that reason. However, they do collect data, and are forced to file the complaints they receive. And when these data are available, I can make my own opinions, so I don’t need them to tell me what to think about it.

    I don’t need anyone to tell me that there is something wrong when a thousand suicides are reported about a single drug.

    The FDA and the e-Meter. This seems to puzzle you, but the FDA is absolutely right. The e-Meter does not cure anything…and it’s not supposed to.

    The e-Meter is a measuring device. It measures electric resistance in the body. By itself, it does nothing to help the person. You could hold the cans of an e-Meter for a century and not experience the slightest relief.

    This was clearly explained by LRH long before the FDA ever ran any test on it, and we would have been very surprised if they had found it an efficient cure for any disease.

    To make a comparison, it’s like an X-Ray machine. It shows you where the problem is … and like a X-ray machine, it doesn’t fix the problem.

    So given that the FDA’s statement is true, I don’t have a problem with it.

    Does that explain better my position on that subject?

    Comment by Sylver — February 14, 2008 @ 2:53 pm

    51.  

  51. It explains that you’re still fucking crazy. Measuring electrical resistance only shows electrical resistance. And unless you’re checking a resistor it’s not showing you where any problem is. Comparing it to an x-ray is like comparing a set of tinker-toys the girders used in building construction.

    And since you keep harping on the deaths, you still haven’t answered my other point. Do you deny the effectiveness of other medical treatments such as chemotherapy just because they are not 100% effective in the same way you do psychiatric treatments?

    Thousands of people die from cancer despite treatment of the disease. Thousands of people succumb to depression despite treatment of the disease.

    Your logic is still flawed.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 14, 2008 @ 3:03 pm

    52.  

  52. It’s interesting you’d compare the e-meter to an x-ray. One is a dangerous, but necessary diagnostic tool, the other a device used to detect “stress.”

    Overuse of the x-ray will cause cancer. I wonder what overuse of the e-meter causes?

    I may have to look into that. Thanks Sylver for an excellent idea.

    Comment by D — February 14, 2008 @ 3:38 pm

    53.  

  53. Oh, and thanks for ignoring my questions Sylver, I guess that means you have no answer. Which I will conclude means you aren’t “clear”, therefore haven’t reached any levels and LRH’s teachings haven’t helped you at all.

    Glad we have that settled.

    Comment by D — February 14, 2008 @ 3:41 pm

    54.  

  54. Sorry for the double post above. Something went wrong with my connection.

    “I have a question for you. What level OT are you? Are you clear yet? Have all the claims made by L. Ron Hubbard come true for you?”

    I don’t discuss my case over the Internet. However, I can tell you that I am very happy so far with what I got from Scientology.

    You may have trouble believing it, but I used to be quite withdrawn before Scientology. I would spend all my time reading books and not talk much to anyone. This has changed, as you probably realize.

    My memory used to be bad, and it’s now fairly good. I am more alert, more “here” and I have more energy to get things done.

    Also, and more importantly, Scientology has allowed me to help other people in a way I could never have done without it.

    For instance, as a volunteer minister, I went to Yogakarta (Indonesia) following the earthquake there. There were relatively few casualties but many were injured (about 5,000 deaths, over 100,000 wounded). The people couldn’t all fit in the hospitals, so they were put in many improvised wards, from car parks to neighboring shop houses.

    I remember clearly one of the wards. It was gloomy in the extreme as we walked in. People were in pain, relatives waited around, not knowing what to do. Wounds were mostly not serious; broken bones and fractured skulls were the most common (their houses are in bricks, but they use almost no cement, so when the earthquake happened, the bricks just fell down on the occupants…you get the picture).

    We started delivering assists (procedure designed to help a person spiritually to get in better communication with his body – not a medical procedure, and not a replacement for medical assistance).

    I started with an elderly lady. She was in severe pain, with several broken bones. Her morale was very low although she was attended by her grand son (I think, he was a 10 year old boy) and her husband. I gave her an assist, and after 50 some minutes, the pain reduced considerably and she was smiling.

    My colleagues were doing the same to other people, and the place started to come alive. People were interested and gathered around to look. I taught the 10 years old boy how to do assists and went on to another person.

    After a while, some patients asked me to come and some people were trying to bring me to their wounded relatives. I couldn’t help every one at once, but I taught the procedure to several more people. By the time we left in the evening, we were quite tired but happy, and the morale in the ward was much higher.

    When we came back a couple days later, we were greeted with smiles and open arms. We trained some more people, did some more assists and by the time we left, there were a lot more smiles. A few days later upon returning, we were cheered and given thumbs up.

    We also found out a number of people had recovered enough to go back home and were discharged by the Doctors, who were kind of puzzled as to what happened.

    As it turned out, some of the people we taught assists went on while we were not there, including the little kid who to charge for 3 patients! I can’t really tell you how proud I was.

    Another patient I very much remember from another ward was an elderly gentleman who had broken hips and had suffered some serious back injury. He was on pain, and as you can guess, his morale wasn’t good at all. I ran an assist for about an hour when all of a sudden he sat on his bed with a big smile on his face. The pain was gone! He held my hand in his and started talking profusely. I couldn’t understand most of what he was saying beyond “terimakasi” (thank you), but it was pretty obvious he was feeling much better.

    In Denmark, I was going down the walking street when I saw a women. She kept falling over. It looked like she was completely drunk. I walked over to her and gave her an assist for about 20 minutes,. At one point, she looked at me straight in the eyes. She could stand by herself and was completely there. She looked at me quizzically, not quite understanding what had happened. She asked me “Who are you?” with an hint of awe in her voice. I explained her what I did, and she went on to explain that she just had a dental operation under general anesthesia and had been completely stoned before the assist. She was now standing on her own, without an hint of her previous condition.

    A few months ago, I had to help a person to understand a document and she just didn’t get it. She had tried to figure it out, and it was still completely obscure. I gave her some word clearing (a Scientology study procedure) and by the time I left, the text was crystal clear for her.

    I could go on and on with stories like that. And none of it is hearsay. That’s all personal experience.

    Sorry to disappoint, there is nothing magic about it, nothing supernatural and no amazing power,… but it works and that’s what Scientology is really about.

    That’s why I am a scientologist. It works for me.

    The rest of the stuff… what do I care? I found that the more I learn, the more able I get, and the more tools I have to help others.

    As long as it works for me, I will be a scientologist. Nothing you can do about that.

    Comment by Sylver — February 14, 2008 @ 4:11 pm

    55.  

  55. Sylver, do you know how neurotransmitters work and how prescription drugs like Prozac and Zoloft affect them? You seem so very educated on this subject that I would just LOVE to hear another rambling lecture from you.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 14, 2008 @ 4:17 pm

    56.  

  56. D, just because I answered the other question first doesn’t mean I didn’t intend to answer your question too.

    I believe you have ample answer in my post above.

    As far as the e-meter being dangerous, good luck with that one. A 1.5 V current passes through your body, too small for you to feel.

    It is a tool. In the hands of a trained auditor, its help is invaluable.

    If you are not trained, it’s as useless as it gets.

    Comment by Sylver — February 14, 2008 @ 4:25 pm

    57.  

  57. “Sylver, do you know how neurotransmitters work and how prescription drugs like Prozac and Zoloft affect them? You seem so very educated on this subject that I would just LOVE to hear another rambling lecture from you.”

    How about one of you actually answer my questions for a change?

    How do you justify thousands of suicide with a drug that’s supposed to prevent that type of things?

    We are not talking about a few marginal cases. We are talking about thousands of suicides. And let’s not forget the other non-lethal side effects.

    An idiot compared cancer and depression. Cancer is a physical disease. You can run chemical tests for it and conclude objectively whether or not the patient is affected.

    Depression is a matter of opinion. There is no valid chemical test for that. Go to see a psychiatrist, and he will immediately tell you there is a chemical imbalance in your brain that is causing the depression. Do you really believe psychiatrists sense your chemical imbalances without running chemical tests?

    Next problem…psychiatrists can’t agree on what constitute the proper chemical balance in the brain. They will tell you the brain is much too complex and therefore they don’t know what does what. Yet they claim they can fix it with a happy pill.

    Sure, someone can feel blue, but it certainly isn’t caused by a lack of Prozac in the body.

    now, back to the question. How do you explain away the thousands of suicides? How do you explain the 27 deaths in the course of the clinical trials prior approval?

    Comment by Sylver — February 14, 2008 @ 4:46 pm

    58.  

  58. Umm. No. The majority of psychiatrists and psychologists agree that depression is usually caused by a lack of a neurotransmitter (read: it’s a type of body chemical indigenous to your nervous system) called SEROTONIN. Drugs like Prozac and Zoloft inhibit the breakdown of serotonin passing between nerve cells, so more gets through your body and into your brain.

    Prozac does NOT = SUICIDE, otherwise the people on it who commit suicide wouldn’t be in the MINORITY of people taking it; in fact, suicide rates have INCREASED since that warning label was posted because people who could be helped by antidepressants didn’t get them.

    The reason that those cases of suicide exist is that some people who get are on a different level of depression than others: they’re actually so depressed that they don’t even have the motivation to kill themselves. When they go on Prozac, etc. their level of depression decreases until they reach a point where they’re still depressed, but now have the motivation to add to the corpse pile you keep talking about. With prevention and emotional support from friends and family, people can and do get past this hurdle in their therapy and go on to lead normal, healthy lives.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 14, 2008 @ 4:53 pm

    59.  

  59. Well, I appreciate your honesty, openness and candor. And I am sure it’s not easy defending your stance against a massive group of people who fervently disagree with your claims. You have my respect for that, but truthfully, don’t you see how disingenuous it is for you to say “Scientology works for me, there’s nothing you can do to change that,” and CoS leader David Miscavige’s message that the CoS is working hard to obliterate psychiatry and the drugs they use to treat people?

    What if those drugs work for the people who use them and Dianetics and Scientology doesn’t? Should those individuals be deprived of what they need simply because the CoS doesn’t approve of their use?

    That just doesn’t seem like the right approach.

    My issue with Cos isn’t in the tech, or the applied science, although I don’t agree with it, but rather in the how the message is spread and the way it is presented. One-sided arguments aren’t fair.

    CoS needs to open itself up for debate and scrutiny, until they do, people will look at it with suspicion and derision. It’s the nature of humans to mistrust that which is hidden and kept from them.

    Comment by D — February 14, 2008 @ 4:57 pm

    60.  

  60. Suicides have gone up since the black box warnings for antidepressants were issued.

    Bull!

    The CDC (Center for Disease Control) reports an increase in youth suicide from 2003 to 2004 and some “experts” are blaming this increase on the decline in antidepressant use among youth. However, the Black Box Warning was not approved until September 2004, didn’t go into affect until Jan/Feb.

    Further, the actual use of antidepressant is still on the increase, despite the warnings!

    List of growth in prescription drug claims for 2001-2006 in girls and boys aged 10-19:

    IT SHOWS ANTIDEPRESSANT RATES SINCE 2006 HAVE BEEN RISING NOT FALLING!

    a.. Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) drugs. Up nearly 74% for girls and 37% for boys
    b.. Antidepressants. Up more than 9% in girls and less than 1% in boys
    c.. Antipsychotics. Up more than 117% in girls and almost 71% in boys
    d.. Sleep aids. Up more than 80% in girls and about 64% in boys

    As long as the actual drug use goes up, the suicide will be on the rise.

    Note that before we started drugging our kids, child suicides were unheard of.

    Minority of cases? About 50,000 suicides for Prozac alone.

    However, there is one thing we agree on. Black warning labels shouldn’t be used at all on these drugs.

    They should be forbidden and any attempt to push them should be met by jail time under the charge of attempted murder. For that’s exactly what they are.

    Comment by Sylver — February 14, 2008 @ 5:13 pm

    61.  

  61. Ah, but the decline in Prozan prescriptions happened BEFORE the black-boxing. From answers.com, cited by a NYT article:

    On September 6, 2007, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported suicide rate in American adolescents (especially girls, 10 to 24 years old) increased 8% (2003 to 2004), the largest jump in 15 years. Specifically, in 2004 – 4,599 suicides in Americans ages 10 to 24, up from 4,232 in 2003, for a rate of 7.32 per 100,000 people that age. Before, the rate dropped to 6.78 per 100,000 in 2003 from 9.48 per 100,000 in 1990. The findings also reinforced the fact that antidepressant drugs reduce suicide risk. Psychiatrists found that the increase is due to the decline in prescriptions of antidepressant drugs like Prozac to young people since 2003, leaving more cases of serious depression untreated. In a December 2006 study, The American Journal of Psychiatry said that a decrease in antidepressant prescriptions to minors of just a few percentage points coincided with a 14 percent increase in suicides in the United States; in the Netherlands, the suicide rate was 50% up, upon prescription drop.

    Of course, I’m guessing that the word “psychiatrist” being in there ruins the whole argument for you, since they’re all a bunch of moneygrubbing demons out to ruin people’s lives.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 14, 2008 @ 5:21 pm

    62.  

  62. I happen to know this great guy. He’s a manic-depressive (incidentally, he’s also homosexual. I bet Hubbard would love him, don’t you?). He’s currently on medication and, in all honesty, it is extremely difficult to cheer him up when he’s off medication. He hasn’t been suicidal or anything for a long time, but he’s still miserable when he goes unmedicated. Now, Sylver, are you going to tell me that the medication is actually hurting him? Showing that people on medication commit suicide proves nothing. 24,672 males died of suicide in the US in 2001. Being a man obviously causes a lot of people to become suicidal. Men should all get sex changes as this would be effective in preventing suicide since only 5,950 women committed suicide in the same year!

    Do you see the fallacy in that logic? Let me break it down for you. That 24,672 represents 0.0176 percent of the male population and 2.1 percent of deaths. For females, the number represents 0.004 percent of the population and 0.5 percent of deaths. Yes, that’s a big number of men who died. Somehow, I doubt being male is the reason most of those men killed themselves even though the proportion of non-males to kill themselves was dramatically less. Rather, there are likely factors associated with being male that lead to an increase in stress and suicidal feelings. I think this because the vast majority of males do not commit suicide and the actual percentage is incredibly close to non-males when placed in a context of the whole instead of raw numbers.

    Similaly, I suspect that people on medication may have conditions associated with them that are not CAUSED by the medication that make them more likely to kill themselves. (Such as, perhaps, being depressed in the first place?) Until you present statistics such as the percentage of people on medication who kill themselves rather than the exact number, as well as the comparative suicide rates of people psychiatry believes should be medicate but are not versus those who are, your numbers are just that. Numbers. They don’t actually mean anything.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 14, 2008 @ 5:43 pm

    63.  

  63. I find it interesting, Sylver, that you’re attempting to remove human choice from the picture by saying that there’s a drug that, guaranteed, will cause suicides.

    I don’t remember what I’ve read of Scientologist dogma. DOES the CoS believe in free agency/human free will? Or are you deterministic folks?

    Comment by Freywinn — February 14, 2008 @ 5:43 pm

    64.  

  64. #62 was aimed at Sylver

    Comment by Anonymous — February 14, 2008 @ 5:44 pm

    65.  

  65. Also, 75% of statistics are made up on the spot.

    One death is a tragedy. Twenty thousand are a statistic.

    words words words words words &c.

    Comment by Freywinn — February 14, 2008 @ 5:46 pm

    66.  

  66. Funny thing, you guys – I was on antidepressants and antipsychotics for a short period in my life. Why aren’t I dead now?

    Comment by Anonymous — February 14, 2008 @ 5:49 pm

    67.  

  67. I don’t know what you’re talking about, Anon. I’ve been on antidepressants for four years and I’m already dead.

    Comment by Freywinn — February 14, 2008 @ 5:50 pm

    68.  

  68. 1. Everyone stop the psychiatry debate, please, as it’s irrelevant and pointless. I think there are some issues with psychiatry that need to be discussed, but accusing psychiatrists of a global conspiracy and blaming them for the Holocaust and 9/11, as the CoS does is ridiculous and beyond any debate.

    2. Sylver, I’m glad to hear Dianetics helped you in your private life and made it possible for you to help other people. Let me remind you that Anonymous is not going after your beliefs, even though some of us here might’ve gotten carried away with the criticism.

    3. Anonymous protests the actions of the management Church of Scientology, not the system of beliefs of it’s followers. Just because you didn’t experience the horrors we have testimonies and legal proof of it doesn’t mean you should ignore or dismiss those who expiernced them. You never explained your stance on Operation Freakout, Operation Snow White, the policy of Disconnection, the large amounts of money Scientologists need to “donate” in order to get spiritual counceling, etc.

    These individual cases of harrasment and power abuse by the leaders of the CoS, and them going unpunished for them is what Anonymous is standing against. Stay vigilant and critical – as you know, every human system is bound to have flaws. Don’t stay blind to the flaws in the organisation you belong to.

    Knowledge is free.
    Religion should be, too.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 14, 2008 @ 6:22 pm

    69.  

  69. Thank you, Anonymous @ 68.

    So, Sylver, how about $cientology’s Operation Freakout, Operation Snow White, bullying, harassment, malicious litigation, Fair Game, R2-45, “disconnect”, etc.? In short, what about the well-documented abuses by the Co$?

    Believe in body thetans and all that stuff, if it floats your boat. What got Anonymous into action against the Co$ was its suppression of free speech and the harm it has done to countless people.

    If the $ci organization is respectful of people’s rights, it won’t mind you and other $cientologists speaking out and saying that it was wrong – dead wrong – to implement Operation Freakout against Paulette Cooper. And that Operation Snow White was wrong. And that defaming critics of the $cientology according to Fair Game policy is wrong. And that Hubbard’s R2-45 idea was sickeningly wrong. Etc.

    Please show us you have the decency to know it’s wrong to defame and harass and shoot people with 2 rounds from a .45.

    Comment by Narcissus — February 14, 2008 @ 7:00 pm

    70.  

  70. Re: R2-45, Wikipedia has this charming anecdote:
    “On March 6, 1968, Hubbard issued an internal memo titled “RACKET EXPOSED,” in which he denounced twelve people … as “Enemies of mankind, the planet and all life,” and ordered that “Any Sea Org member contacting any of them is to use Auditing Process R2-45.”

    Comment by Narcissus — February 14, 2008 @ 7:16 pm

    71.  

  71. A CoS “Operation Freakout” memo is reproduced at http://www.shipbrook.com/jeff/CoS/docs/pcof1.html
    It says the aim of Op Freakout is to get Paulette Cooper institutionalized, incarcerated or otherwise incapacitated.

    Comment by Narcissus — February 14, 2008 @ 7:21 pm

    72.  

  72. Operation Clambake has a Hubbard policy letter that describes “Fair Game” policy for SPs, who “May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed.”
    http://www.xenu.net/fairgame-e.html

    Comment by Narcissus — February 14, 2008 @ 7:25 pm

    73.  

  73. Sweet “church” you’re representing there, Sylver.

    Comment by Narcissus — February 14, 2008 @ 7:26 pm

    74.  

  74. “You might have to wait a while. I don’t intend to sunk that low any time soon.” – Oh, just remember how the mighty fall with a hard landing… what a completely arrogant, sociopathic statement.

    Hilarious Sylver – keep it coming!

    While you were on the topic – you forgot to point out that Hubbard’s own son, Quentin, committed suicide… And there are hundreds of documented suicides involving CO$… or is that acceptable collateral damage? I know you only ‘cruise’ the ‘net looking for forums to spew your narrow-minded bunk – but do yourself a favour and look at this for a change:

    http://www.whyaretheydead.net/

    And for those of you here with open minds, you may like to check this out (Sylver – you may like to read it too – but I’m sure you’ll just refute the content with some more of your delicious disinformation):

    http://www.xs4all.nl/~fishman/fable.htm

    And now for the rest:

    All personal experience, eh? – back it up with the glowing news reports of the yellow shirts healing the world then. Oh, what’s that? Damn LIBERAL media blocking your good work? Where’s the proof, Sylver? Apparently there was lots of CO$ members doing assist along side you, and doctor discharging patients who had no idea how their patients were ‘cured’. Surely the townsfolk and medical workers would want to tell others about your work. Oh, that’s right, damn WOGS keeping you down. I’d laugh, but you are seriously deranged if you think I’m going to let a totally unsubstantiated story play violin. Time to show us proof…

    And a little word on your ‘Study Tech’ -Word clearing does not make the context or the meaning of any document clear, it involves looking up words in a Dictionary – and does not enhance comprehension, as that requires rational thought – which is frowned upon in CO$ – as then you may actually realise you are being taken for a ride when you actually analyse what you are reading. Try it – especially when you get to OTVIII – and discover that a 3rd rate pulp fiction hack has had you.

    Stay smug in your false sense of importance, Sylver. As your current attitude really shows the deficiencies in CO$ and its teachings better than any critic could.

    One thing you’ll never get is humility, and tolerance whilst being a Scientologist. As those are the qualities of a true higher being.

    Comment by beebee — February 14, 2008 @ 9:54 pm

    75.  

  75. Oh – while I remember – here’s some real media stories about volunteer ministers of CO$ – without the ORG spin:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6878931/

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3445882&page=1

    http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2007/04/as-we-reported-friday-the.php

    :)

    Comment by beebee — February 14, 2008 @ 10:31 pm

    76.  

  76. That was a lovely story Sylver, thanks for sharing. But, what the heck is an assist?

    Comment by RandomComment — February 14, 2008 @ 10:35 pm

    77.  

  77. He won’t tell you. Only if you pay big money can you learn to “run an assist”.

    Funny, though…at my church, even the poorest, penniless pauper can pray for someone.

    Comment by k — February 14, 2008 @ 10:54 pm

    78.  

  78. RandomComment – Say “feel my finger” – repeat whilst touching random parts of another person’s anatomy – keep going until the recipient smiles in bewilderment & shock from their injuries – or when an actual trained professional tell you to bug off.

    Cute – how Sylver has been trained to give assists as part of being a Scientologist – but can willy-nilly train non-Scientologists how to give assists… it just doesn’t make any logical sense (as Sylver keeps telling us – since we are not Scientologists, we cannot possibly question Scientology (obviously not a Philosophy Major…) – AND there is indeed no valid scientific basis in fact to this ‘tech’… But hey – APPARENTLY that’s the evil Psychiatric Cartel at work for you…

    Possibly you could liken it to Reiki, Bowen or Kinesiology therapies – the real big difference being those named ‘laying on of hands’ techniques don’t turn adherents into, unquestioning narcissists…

    Comment by beebee — February 14, 2008 @ 11:16 pm

    79.  

  79. Slyver – Mike Rinder blew and you can too! Mike Rinder was former head of OSA, ask around! :) Ask everyone what happened to Mike Rinder.

    He left. Why did he leave? Ask yourself Slyver. Ask people in the orgs.

    Comment by LRonHubbub — February 15, 2008 @ 3:05 am

    80.  

  80. I hope you don’t expect me to answer up on all things listed here as it is a bit long, but I will pick up some of the main points raised here. And before you say “Oh, dodging the tough questions”, wait and read.

    * “In a December 2006 study, The American Journal of Psychiatry said that a decrease in antidepressant prescriptions to minors of just a few percentage points coincided with a 14 percent increase in suicides in the United States; in the Netherlands, the suicide rate was 50% up, upon prescription drop.”

    1. While Prozac was the first of the SSRI , it was joined by many similar compounds, including Zoloft and Celexa, just to name 2 of them. The overall prescription rates went up, not down, unfortunately.

    2. SSRI Withdrawal symptoms are hell on earth and a lot of the suicides connected to these drugs occurs during that period. So if you have people who quit cold turkey, you are guaranteed to see a spike in suicides.

    We had much much less suicides before we started drugging kids. What happened? A sign of the times? It just happened?

    Either way, after billions spent on drugs, suicides & depression are way up…so it should be clear even to a moron that drugs are not the answer.

    However, to the folks profiting from this multi-billion dollars racket, the raising suicide rates is evidence we should pay them even more!

    * “Of course, I’m guessing that the word “psychiatrist” being in there ruins the whole argument for you, since they’re all a bunch of moneygrubbing demons out to ruin people’s lives.”

    Have you ever heard of the phrase “conflict of interest”?

    Speaking of which, I would be interested if you disclosed your links and vested interests in psychiatry, since you are clearly have some.

    Some of you say that we are “imagining” that psychiatry is “against us”… this thread is very enlightening in that regard.

    * “as Sylver keeps telling us – since we are not Scientologists, we cannot possibly question Scientology (obviously not a Philosophy Major…”

    And where did I say that?

    Now, there have been a bunch of questions, and I am going to try to answer the main ones:

    * “R2-45″… was a joke. No one was ever shot by a scientologist as a result of this joke.

    When we have been attacked by someone, we use legal means to obtain justice. And you know very well that’s true. We don’t shoot criminals, we bring them to court.

    [split here are the whole post would go online]

    Comment by Sylver — February 15, 2008 @ 3:07 am

    81.  

  81. http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2005/jan/29/theeditorpressreview

    One of the religious groups in Aceh is the Church of Scientology. Gregory Churilov, who is working for the Scientologists there, explained his faith offers the Acehnese “a methodology to handle loss and trauma”. But, as England observed, “in an unusual twist on the notion of bringing aid to the destitute, Churilov says his group arrived in Aceh with nothing and were given tents by the army and food by friendly locals. Unfazed that the aid flow was meant to go the other way, he used this as an example of how well accepted the Scientologists were by local people, rather than as an example of traditional manners.”

    Comment by bob dobbs — February 15, 2008 @ 8:22 am

    82.  

  82. Darn, I was hoping that since Sylver was in such a sharing mode, he/she could help explain the “wonders” of scientology touch assists to us instead of trying to distract us with “the evils of psychiatry.”

    Last I checked, this is between the CoS and Anon.

    Psych, as someone mentioned earlier, can be dealt with at a later time.

    Comment by RandomComment — February 15, 2008 @ 10:41 am

    83.  

  83. I don’t know about you, but R2-45 is some kind of sick joke and you don’t make jokes like that without expecting some culpability that someone might take it seriously

    When will the leadership of CoS come forward and admit their mistakes instead of hiding behind legal loopholes.

    I don’t think jokes about shooting someone with a gun is funny, not funny at all. I also don’t know of any other respected and established religion whose leader has suggested its critics be show with guns, even as a “joke.”

    Surely you don’t think this is funny do you Sylver?

    Comment by D — February 15, 2008 @ 10:43 am

    84.  

  84. And yet again Sylver fails to address most of the accusations against the leaders of his organisation.

    Besides rambling about psychiatrists again you at least touched on the subject of the auditing process R2-25. If it is a joke than how do you explain this:

    “The Creation of Human Ability” by L. Ron Hubbard, page 120:

    http://www.xenu-directory.net/documents/images/cha-r2-45.jpg

    And these:

    http://www.xenu-directory.net/documents/images/1968-auditor37-r2-45.jpg
    http://www.xenu-directory.net/documents/images/1968-0306-hco-eo-30-int.jpg

    Doesn’t look very funny to me.

    Source and additional documents & testimonies here:

    http://www.xenu-directory.net/practices/r2-45.html

    Comment by Anonymous — February 15, 2008 @ 10:44 am

    85.  

  85. Can’t help but notice that Sylver couldn’t bring himself to admit that his “church” did anything wrong. Instead, it’s just blah blah blah about psychiatric medications and a bit of deflection by saying R2-45 was just a joke. (That LRH was a real card.)

    Quelle surprise.

    Comment by Narcissus — February 15, 2008 @ 11:05 am

    86.  

  86. Sylver – looks like your fuses are getting overloaded – as your last comment failed to prove, or answer anything put forward to you.

    You really are a pawn of CO$.

    Rambling on about the perceived ‘evils’ of Psychiatry – you have no idea about how mental health professionals go about their work. You base a lot of your thinking on the psychotic bumblings of a mentally ill man with a drug abuse problem – but we recognise that you believe LRH to be beyond reproach – so, the world will keep turning, with mental health professionals going about their important work, proving the CO$ wrong.

    If you are so worried about Big Pharma making money by abusing patients, why concentrate only on Psyche drugs? – What about the exploitation of AIDS sufferers by the same. Oh that’s right, you hate homosexuals… (BTW not only gays get HIV and AIDS…)

    AND you harp on with the tired “What about the children?” line – like many people who do harp on like that, you have no desire to save children, just your closeted set of beliefs…

    “much much less suicides before we started drugging kids” – um, yeah – where are the stats to back up that facetious statement?

    You don’t really want to talk about the many reasons people commit suicide, other than withdrawal from anti-depressants – as then you have to deal with the increase in suicides by people connected to CO$ – and that would blow a hole straight thru your argument…

    Depression is up in today’s world – because mental health reporting has changed. But then, you wouldn’t know anything about that.

    You’re fighting a losing battle – and being hugely hypocritical – about your ‘source’, your ‘church’, your ‘motivations’, and your ‘examples’.

    Michael, I think you should accept that you’ve been lied to.

    Comment by beebee — February 17, 2008 @ 9:29 pm

    87.  

  87. “Oh, but wait, one person who died of an accident in a Church of Scientology 12 years ago …”

    Lisa McPherson did not die of an accident.

    Lisa McPherson died because, instead of getting proper medical care after an accident, she was taken away from proper medical care by Scientologists who tried to treat her with the “entirely religious” Introspection Rundown. (Note that the Church of Scientology spent a great deal of time falsely denying that McPherson had been put on the Introspection Rundown, before longtime Scientology lawyers Kendrick Moxon and Helena Kobrin made it a central point of their brief in the case.)

    Lisa McPherson died because, instead of having her treated by a doctor who would have known what to look for and could have prescribed appropriate treatment, Scientologists illegally dosed her with Valium and chloral hydrate prescribed by a Scientologist doctor who had never seen McPherson.

    Lisa McPherson died because when the Scientologists finally got her into the car to take her to medical care, they didn’t take her to the closest hospital, which was two minutes away, but to the hospital where they knew a Scientologist doctor was working, forty-five minutes away, passing three other hospitals along the way.

    Lisa McPherson did not die of an accident but of neglect and abuse.

    Comment by AF — February 24, 2008 @ 2:21 am

    88.  

  88. And even more stories about how the yellow shirts hinder, rather than help:

    http://www.mvariety.com/?module=displaystory&story_id=7047&format=html

    Comment by beebee — February 25, 2008 @ 11:14 pm

    89.  

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