Children Of Scientology Have History Of Abuse
I posted a story earlier that was based on recent news coming out of members in Scientology’s OSA (Office of Special Affairs). This information indicated the Church was severely cracking down on members and there was a special concern for the children of members who’ve been left in the care of Org members at FLAG Land Base in Clearwater.
Glosslip has been accused of being an anti-Scientology hate-site, or a front for the group Anonymous. Neither are true, but irrelevant to what’s really important in this story. Scientology is not honest about its intentions and has not been forthcoming about how it treats its members. I encourage you to watch the above videos for further proof of how CoS treats children.
Scientology has a history of silencing its critics in any way it deems fit, including a written policy its founder called “Fair Game.” To those regular CoS visitors who continue to come to the comments and level insults at Glosslip, that is fine. I will not suppress your free speech, but know this, I will not stop my investigation of any alleged crimes committed by the CoS, especially those I deem involve children. We have laws in this country that protect children, as a concerned member of this society I REFUSE to allow those laws to be violated unchecked and I will do everything in my power to make them known to the public and the authorities.
If you know of known laws being broken and children’s rights being violated, it is your ethical duty to report it. I encourage anyone witnessing such abuses to responsibly report them to the proper authorities using the proper channels.
Should you need help finding those proper channels, please email me at dmdo1016 (at) aol.com.
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I’ll be waiting for the CO$ Trolls who try and attack over this… for shame…
Comment by beebee — February 26, 2008 @ 10:56 pm
I’ve never seen that courtroom clip. Outstanding piece of damning video. That audio clip of the “Why Can’t We Be Friends” tape is so out there. Is it frightening or laughable . . . or both? Actually that’s $cientology in a nutshell funny and frightening. Hubbard’s work is totally laughable but the excesses of the “Church” are quite scary when you think of what people have done to each other in Hubbard’s name.
And any rondroid who tries to spin this footage has their work cut out for them.
Comment by Artoo45 — February 26, 2008 @ 11:42 pm
inb4 Terreyo, OSA etc.
Just wait, they’ll be posting some garbage attack here instead of coming up with any sort of defence or any sort of logical backing as to what in this article they think is false.
In the mean time all anon will come here, archive their posts, circulate them and gain some truly epic lulz in the process. I love being anon.
Comment by PRCAnon — February 27, 2008 @ 12:31 am
After discovering all the dirty tricks that Scientology uses to manipulate their own members, nothing surprises me anymore.
Scientology actually broke into the IRS, tapped their phones and they were convicted!
They actually attempt to infiltrate governments.
They engage in harassment, surveillance and lawsuits.
They abuse children.
Scientology is not only a CULT, it is ORGANIZED CRIME.
Comment by Ted — February 27, 2008 @ 4:48 am
All this is true!
Comment by Scientology History Of Abuse — February 27, 2008 @ 5:12 am
inb4 OSA plants
Really, guys. You are MORE than welcome to give us a logical, coherent, civil argument about what you think. Just don’t start foaming at the mouth again, please.
Comment by Anonymous — February 27, 2008 @ 6:37 am
Why is this only an “ethical duty to report it”
In my country this will be a crime “not to report it”
Maybe because of that, we don’t have scientology.
Scientology is a crime!
Comment by OSA plant — February 27, 2008 @ 7:27 am
TerryO, don’t fret, this site is likely one lady in her kitchen on a bad hair day. She’s got stuff fro 1847 also on the Mormons. She never can deal with the fact that the justice system is where any alleged abuses should be taken up, but of course that would be a losing cause because it just doesn’t happen. The Anon guys love this site because they can commiserate.
Comment by right2u — February 27, 2008 @ 8:16 am
Scientology is organized crime and american goverments love organized crime
Comment by Anonymous — February 27, 2008 @ 8:28 am
People should not fear scientology anywmore but stand against it:
All that is required for darkness to prevail is for the light to stand aside and do nothing.
The darkest of evil screams and chants madly calling unfair unfair! as it falls Scientology is now on the receiving of the fair game policy and just realise how little “science” of anything they really know.
Comment by Anonymous — February 27, 2008 @ 8:34 am
Yes #8, make comments about my hair and kitchen, but don’t make any efforts to correct or address the assertions that Scientology is a cult. Gee, I guess that’s because you can’t.
I feel sorry for Scientologists, they deserve pity. Unless they are hurting children, and for that there is NO mercy.
Comment by D — February 27, 2008 @ 8:38 am
AFTER BECOMING AWARE OF THIS VIDEO, I REALIZE I FINALLY HAVE TO STAND UP AND NOT PASSIVELY WATCH THIS FIGHT ANYMORE. I DON’T KNOW ANY CURRENT PUBLIC SCIENTOLOGISTS THAT COULD SEE THIS VIDEO AND NOT START ASKING QUESTIONS. THEY WOULD NEVER THINK THIS WAS OKAY, AND WOULD IMMEDIATELY GO INTO DOUBT ABOUT THE CHURCH.
SO TO THE BRAVE PERSON DOING THIS WEBSITE- THE REASON YOU ARE BEING PERSONALLY ATTACKED AND THIS STORY MINIMIZED BY THE PEOPLE CRITICAL OF YOU IS BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT SHOWING THIS CRIMINAL STORY AGAINST THE CHURCH INVOLVING THE ABUSE OF CHILDREN IS DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER. YOU COULD CAUSE MANY PAYING SCIENTOLOGISTS TO GO INTO THE CONDITION OF DOUBT WHICH IS THE FIRST STEP TO THEM ACTIVELY LEAVING THE CHURCH FOR GOOD. NO SCIENTOLOGIST WANTS TO BE KNOWN AS BEING A PART OF A CHURCH WHO ABUSES AND TAKES ADVANTAGE OF YOUNG CHILDREN. THOSE ARE SUPPOSE TO BE THE SUPRESSIVE GROUPS THEY FIGHT AGAINST. (NOT THEMSELVES.) THEY WOULD NOT GO ALONG WITH IT AT ALL.
SO YOU KEEP RIGHT ON DIGGING! AND REMEMBER, WHEN THE CHURCH MEMBERS MINIMIZE YOUR EFFORTS AND ATTACK YOU, ITS A GREAT SIGN. YOUR AFFECTING THEM. THE MORE YOU GET, THE BETTER YOUR DOING. SO KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!
FROM- A PERSON WHO JUST LEFT THE CHURCH AND WILL NEVER GO BACK
Comment by ANONYMOUS — February 27, 2008 @ 10:27 am
Truth is free, and truth is freedom.
Comment by marcab — February 27, 2008 @ 10:56 am
Thank you for your continued vigilance in reporting fair, newsworthy, verifiable information. It is disheartening to see those blinded by faith ignoring the universal truth that is the abuse of human rights by the Church of Scientology. Please, for the sake of journalism, free speach, freedom of information, and basic human rights: keep up the great work!
Comment by JohnJacobJingleheimerSchmidt — February 27, 2008 @ 1:30 pm
If they were innocent they would allow anyone with questions about their conduct some sort of access to places like RPF and Flag. The “just take our word for it” thing ain’t gonna fly for much longer. Bad things happen behind locked doors….we should make it a priority to get the doors unlocked… thank you glosslip for all that you do. It is soooo important!
Comment by lissy — February 27, 2008 @ 1:48 pm
I just watched the videos. I was in stitches. You guys are hilarious. Just imagine how we could represent the Catholic Church … or really ANY church for that matter. Any church could be made to look DIABOLICAL if we really wanted to, couldn’t we? Children being sent into “slave labor” (Sunday School and Catechism) to learn how to “stone people” (Bible verses) and eat the flesh and blood of their leader! We could have a heyday! (No doubt, a couple thousand years ago, people did!)
But alas, after spending an hour responding to posts yesterday here, and having them censored by your anti-Scientology moderator, I have no confidence in the moderation of this website. This is so clearly a front-group website for a few anti-Scientology haters, that it’s laughable.
Although I have no idea who runs the scientologymyths.info site (other than a name “Lu”), it is clear that she is more interested in having a rational dialog than the moderator(s) of this site.
I will be happy to help address any questions/concerns that you would like to raise at ScientologyMyths, including those raised in the two videos above. It should be noted that most (if not all) of the accusations have been either debunked or explained by Scientologists or the Church, for years now — as well as at the website:
http://scientologymyths.info
Comment by Marge — February 27, 2008 @ 2:12 pm
Marge, not one of your comments have been censored. They are as they were in their original posting and to imply otherwise is flat out lies and I can prove it.
This site has been around for over a year, with a rich history of covering all sorts of things related to celebrities, Hollywood and popular culture. No one is buying what you are selling and telling people to go to the Scientology-run site you keep linking to is pointless.
We aren’t talking about CATHOLICS, or any other church, we are TALKING about SCIENTOLOGY. How about we stick to the topic at hand and quit deflecting and distracting from the fact that you can’t disprove the CoS tortures children and violates child labor laws.
PROVE us wrong, or slink off into the place from whence you came. Your ad hominem attacks do little more than make your inferior efforts of defending the CoS that much more pathetic.
Read something other than Dianetics and then come back. There are other books and information in the world, go to a library, check them out. It’s free, unlike the rantings of L Ron.
Comment by D — February 27, 2008 @ 2:26 pm
Marge/Lu/David Miscaviage said:
“But alas, after spending an hour responding to posts yesterday here, and having them censored by your anti-Scientology moderator, I have no confidence in the moderation of this website.”
The thing is, you haven’t responded to *any* of the posts. You’ve written certainly, but you’ve never said anything in response to any of the questions. All you have done is attack. You have not provided any amount of dialogue. You have proven, more than anything, to be the same model of automaton that the OSA seems to crank out. None of you seem to have any ability to think on your own.
Again—your cult has a habit of abusing its members—and especially its children. Considering that children are by nature low in their stats, they are treated as if they are degraded beings.
When the Catholic Church’s paedophile scandals made the headlines, I more than anyone shouted, calling the bishops to account for their evil. (Large numbers of laity did, actually.) The only thing you and others in your cult seem capable of doing is to black PR the messenger. Do you think your organization has the right to abuse and destroy children? As far as I can discern, you seem to revel in the evil Scientology promotes.
What a truly pathetic and dark-hearted person you are. Wake the hell up.
NYCanonNYC
Comment by NYCanonNYC — February 27, 2008 @ 2:27 pm
Ok, I’ve read these and it seems to be amounting to a “Yes you are! Check out our website that proves it” to “No we arent! Check out our website that proves it!” argument.
I’ve been to all those sites thank you so please don’t tell me to look there for answers. I dont want to hear about Tom Cruise, tax exemption, dead people, charities around the world. Quite simply answer these questions….respond to them objectivly please if you think your side has merit. Please in a response try to keep attacks minimum and to the point of the question.
People saying child abuses going on in Scientology:
1. What proof do you have it is happening today? (not in the history)
2. If it is happening why arent authorities doing anything?
3. Does kids getting in a van = child abuse? What about field trips? Group outtings and so on? How does the video = abuse?
Now, people who are defending Scientology:
1. What proof do you have it is not happening today?
2. Do you deny the history as claimed in this piece? If so how do you answer for the video of the kid that seems to be on some kind of inquiry?
3. Hypothetically: “You see abuses that the author and others are talking about going on at your church” What do you do? Would you tell authorities?
Comment by On the Bridge — February 27, 2008 @ 2:47 pm
Scientology Secrets: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksDoVUTy1go
Comment by Xenu — February 27, 2008 @ 2:53 pm
I wonder who’s voice is on the tape of “can we be friends?” Methinks it is the same voice with the tom cruise “salute” That video is incredible! Thanks so much for sharing.
Comment by curious — February 27, 2008 @ 2:54 pm
NEW INFO:look at the statistics for scientology members of non-white race , they are way lower than the averages for their local populations,scientology is preacticing RACISM!. By keeping auditing rates steep they deliberatly descriminate against the working classes!, These Cowardtologists are crimnals of the highest degree!
Comment by ANONYMOUS — February 27, 2008 @ 2:57 pm
[...] From GlossLip.com: Glosslip has been accused of being an anti-Scientology hate-site, or a front for the group Anonymous. Neither are true, but irrelevant to what’s really important in this story. [...]
Pingback by Children Of Scientology | SUPERNATURAL NEWS — February 27, 2008 @ 2:57 pm
Um, 4 posts, no answer to my questions.
Comment by On the Bridge — February 27, 2008 @ 3:06 pm
Could we please have Lu, Terryeo, etc. on one of your radio shows. where they could have a fair chance to discuss these questions we all have? Could be interesting. Love you D.
Comment by anon — February 27, 2008 @ 3:14 pm
Also I hope people are actively watching these kid centers in case they try to relocate the kids in the middle of the night to who knows where.
Comment by anon — February 27, 2008 @ 3:17 pm
@ On the Bridge: Maybe no one is responding because it would be an epic waste of time. Google “Fair Game” and “Operation Freakout” with Scientology for an idea of what kind of organization the CoS is. Here’s a link to the Wikipedia article on Op Freakout:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freakout
Really and truly, I can’t be bothered responding to your questions. There’s lots of info out there on $cientology. If you really have done your research, you don’t need me or anyone else to help you along.
I don’t know about the child abuse charges specifically, but it’s interesting to note that the CoS people aren’t posting any denials or evidence to the contrary in this thread. Instead, they’re just attacking D and others.
If anyone else wants to reply to OTB’s questions, good on ya, mate. You have far more patience than I.
Comment by Narcissus — February 27, 2008 @ 3:35 pm
#19:
1. There is unfortunately not much proof that it is happening today. However, there are testimonies that show that it has happened in the past. Why would Scientology decide to change its practices if it was what L. Ron Hubbard, their leader and founder, who told them to do it?
2. Again, a lack of proof. It does not mean that it isn’t happening, though. You could compare it to undergroud mafia organizations; it’s probably happening but not much by police can be done about it.
3. The fact of the video is not that they are getting on the van, but the fact that it should be so late outside. Where are these kids going at this hour, and why are they being led so ferociously? It raises questions.
I might be wrong about the whole proof thing, not having access to the resources. Perhaps someone could give you a more fitting answer. I don’t know if you have watched the videos posted here, but I’d suggest you at least take the time to listen to the second one (multitask), or just to watch it. You can hear a very chilling audio recording that, according to the case (1994, not very recent; they could’ve changed to another media such as televised recordings), is used to teach children. Can you give credibility to an organization as drastic as this one?
Comment by Anoynymause — February 27, 2008 @ 3:58 pm
#19 Brief respond:
People saying child abuses going on in Scientology:
1. What proof do you have it is happening today? (not in the history)
Evidence is provided by ex-sci members who grew up in the CO$. Many current testimonial from ex-members including DM’s niece.
2. If it is happening why aren’t authorities doing anything?
Good question. I assume it is the money the CO$ has, but would suggest it is due to the lack of knowledge. As the CO$ secrets begin to be exposed one hopes the authorities will react. Realize how long it took for authorities to react to the molestation of children by priest.
3. Does kids getting in a van = child abuse? What about field trips? Group outtings and so on? How does the video = abuse?
From this point of view – no but these videos must be viewed in context with the allegations of abuse. The videos is just a piece of evidence.
The defenders of the CO$ do not seem capable of directly addressing criticism and allegations. My responds to this is WHY??
Comment by truthseeker — February 27, 2008 @ 4:07 pm
#27 been there done that. like it or not there is a debate however and I was merely trying to focus on the topic as in the article…not the whole “SCIENTOLOGY IS EVIL” crusade. I was merely trying to focus on this one aspect without going all freaking out about snow white on my way to happiness up the bridge of the freewinds. I’ve read that stuff but here is actually some kind of dialogue between sides and I was just trying to focus it and get away from never defend attack….from both sides.
#28, Thanks!
So evidently no proof sums it up. Testimony, but that doesnt convict. On the othersie of the ball, is there testimony its not happening, or the proof it isnt #28 could not give?
Just a thought….and I don’t mean to offend anyone…was it ever proven that OJ killed Nicole? or MJ had sex with kids? No. This didnt change what people thought to be true however. So, still waiting on Scientology fans response to their questions I posed. With those 3 questions, also then add this: If this stuff isnt going on in your church, how are you going to make it so the public sees and agrees? Otherwise, do you fear you are going to be in leagues with OJ and MJ….innocent, but the world feels you are guilty?
Comment by On the Bridge — February 27, 2008 @ 4:15 pm
sorry #29, was writing response t previous. I see what you added and think my response encompasses that as well. I get the video is part of the story in context, im hoping its not being used out of context to further a goal as well. I am very skeptical
Comment by On the Bridge — February 27, 2008 @ 4:17 pm
People saying child abuses going on in Scientology:
1. What proof do you have it is happening today? (not in the history)
2. If it is happening why arent authorities doing anything?
3. Does kids getting in a van = child abuse? What about field trips? Group outtings and so on? How does the video = abuse?
1. Victims of the abuse that have gotten out have given interviews as to what happened to them and what they witnesses happening to others.
2. In order for authorities to do anything about it they need some one to at least complain about it first and give them a name and a location where the abuse is happening. Since most of the victims are children of staff members at Scientology centers they rarely see their parents and have no one to talk to to get help. They are also under constant watch so they can’t get help. They are also told that the outside world is evil and full of “wogs” that are evil people. The children are given all kinds of reasons to stay where they are and are given no one to help them.
3. How often do you know of field trips and outtings taking place in the dark? That video doesn’t show much, granted. But no one is dumb enough to abuse them in public where non-members can see it.
If you want to know a little more about what happens watch Jenna Miscavige’s interview. She also has a myspace I believe. And yes, that is David Miscavige’s niece. She was also treated better since her family was of the highest rank within the church. The rannk and file members are treated a lot worse.
As always, don’t take our word for it. Find the info for yourself. Educate yourself, if you are able.
Comment by Concerned Mom — February 27, 2008 @ 4:26 pm
30: That’s if you take it on a strictly jurisdictive (lol wat?) level, though. I understand that you’re trying to hold an objective discussion here, but you can’t deny that the Church of Scientology has been accused of many crimes (in many countries), and found guilty in a lot of them (won a lot of cases on simple technicallities, however). The testimonies of people who’ve had run-ins with the Church (from people who were in it for years before escaping, to people who’ve had a few sessions, to critics of it) are overwhelming. Scientology just doesn’t seem credible enough to be trusted. However, like you said, lack of evidence prevents legal and prosecutable searches from happening, seeing as how the Church of Scientology makes sure that anything it does with the public, or that could be seen publicly, follows the law to the furthest extent.
You’ve done your research though, and I can understand your wanting to hold a critical debate like this. It’s your choice of making an opinion on the subject, although I strongly urge you to participate in our “fight” against the Church of Scientology, so that a legal search of their practices can be made by the proper authorities.
Comment by Anoynymause — February 27, 2008 @ 4:36 pm
In response to #30.
Victim testimony is not proof? If you don’t consider it proof then there is no point talking to you anymore as you are just burying your head in the sand.
If you do consider it proof then there are testimonies that are only a few years old. You have to understand that the victims have to get out before they can be heard. And they can’t get out till they are old enough to take care of themselves. Or at least no longer minors subject to their parents wishes. That takes years, obviously, since these children are being abused from very early ages.
And remember Scientology doesn’t see it as abuse either. They believe that children have lived billions of years already so they know this stuff and as such are treated as small and growing adults. They are given adult work loads and expected to deal with adult problems on their own. And that is what most of America sees as abuse. Since you should not make a child work 10+ hour days doing construction or scrubbing out the insides of garbage dumpsters. Or any of the other things that victims have said they were made to do.
Comment by Concerned Mom — February 27, 2008 @ 4:42 pm
#19
Samuel L. Jackson once stated “the absence of evidence is NOT the absence of evidence; there are known knowns and then there are unknown unknowns – things we don’t know that we don’t know.”
Having said that – I’ll address your claims point-by-point.
1. What proof do you have it is happening today? (not in the history)
> Historical documentation is the most prudent form of evidence, without prior knowledge and prior acts – what else is there? The Church of Scientology International holds a belief that all children are reincarnated adults and have just not learned of their past life experiences. While what COS does to children is not abuse in the typical sense, forcing children to stay up long hours watching guard posts at the RPF camps or having them be ethics officers in charge of discussing sexual perversions with adults definitely damages the mentality that children are supposed to retain until early adolescence.
2. If it is happening why arent authorities doing anything?
> A lot of things which happen in the Church of Scientology International occur because people are conditioned to remove parts of their own psyche and allow for mental interference from the Church to take hold of them. Many members of COS International who are under restriction at rehabilitation project force (”RPF”) locations around the world do not feel they ave being kept their against their will because in their mind, they deserve it because they are broken or need to run-down an evil purpose in life.
To suspect that children would be much more prone to this type of psychological molestation doesn’t surprise me and nor should it surprise you. Children are the weakest link in any family structure and in most cases of domestic abuse, the mother abuses the children and the children in order to cope with this problem, abuse the family pet(s).
3. Does kids getting in a van = child abuse? What about field trips? Group outtings and so on? How does the video = abuse?
> The video does not provide any substantiative case for child endagerment or abuse. However, it provides some insight into how many chilidren may or may not be charged to this particular Scientology “organization”. If your question is simply “do children getting into a van provide proof of abuse?” then the answer is no.
Comment by dr3k — February 27, 2008 @ 4:48 pm
On The Bridge:
I understand why you would be very skeptical about this, but Scientology has had a very crummy reputation about internal change. When they supposedly cancelled “Fair Game” policy, there was a disclaimer near the end of the cancellation which basically said “BTW, this doesn’t change the actual policy, we’re just not calling it ‘Fair Game’ anymore because that’s bad PR.” They change on the outside; very rarely do they make radical changes on the inside.
Scientology has “gotten away” with these things because they have a very intricate knowledge of the legal system. They know how to sue people into submission, how to find loopholes, how to butter up authorities (Clearwater, FL is a fine example of this; they basically own the police there). They’ve had decades of experience doing this, so it shouldn’t be surprising that they’re mastered the art.
Even if these abuses are not being carried out today, why is Scientology continuing in being so secretive? Why haven’t they come clean about past abuses, apologized for them, and become transparent to regain the public trust? That alone is worth considerable suspicion.
Comment by Anon — February 27, 2008 @ 4:56 pm
To OTB, please go to the main page of Glosslip as there is an entire post which outlines what OTHER countries are doing to combat the illegal practices of the Church of Scientology. I believe it is in th US’s best interest to keep these allegations just that, allegations. Why?
Because our own government gave the CoS privileges no other religious organization benefits from and has sealed the document from the public. How would it look if they knowingly approved of an organization which is responsible for defrauding thousands and thousands, abusing children, mistreating its members, violating privacy, harassing critics and murdering people through malevolent neglect?
Not good I imagine. But in places like Germany, France and Belgium, those governments are cracking down on the abuses of the CoS and some are outright banning them. That should speak volumes and hopefully answer some of your questions.
I see there have been no responses from any known Scientologists, other than to make fun of my hair and kitchen. They’ve got NOTHING.
Comment by D — February 27, 2008 @ 5:00 pm
any religion has a history of child abuse, idoits.
Comment by danny — February 27, 2008 @ 5:00 pm
Does anyone else find it funny when someone calls a group idiots but types it “idoits”? I am dying….that is comedy.
Seriously though, thanks Glosslip, tons of one side’s answers to my questions…can someone please answer on the other side other than calling people ‘idoits’?
Comment by On the Bridge — February 27, 2008 @ 5:03 pm
I am dying….that is comedy.
People who have died under the watch of Scientology…that isn’t comedy. Regrettably, that’s what has occurred under the “perfect” tech of LRH.
NYCanonNYC
Comment by NYCanonNYC — February 27, 2008 @ 5:27 pm
“any religion has a history of child abuse, idoits.”
And how many have a history as recently as a few years ago? And how many attack people that tell them to stop abusing children? And how many have written policy to abuse children?
Any organization that abuses children should be stopped. For the most part these organizations monitor themselves, and are monitored by outside sources as well. CoS refuses to do that. So others must step in to speak up for the children that are being abused and silenced.
Comparing other religions that did horrible acts years ago to a sham religion that does horrible things now is idiotic. We can’t stop what happened hundreds of years ago. We can stop what is happening today in our own country. And we should too.
Comment by Concerned Mom — February 27, 2008 @ 6:02 pm
To OTB:
The most likely answer, no, nobody is going to answer the other side of your questions. There’s been one Scientologist who posted a comment (Marge).
If you see responses from Terryeo or Curiouser they’re also Scientologists but most likely won’t answer your questions (there’s another one commenting here but I can’t fore the lift of me remember who).
They won’t answer why a lot of the former members all testify to various forms of abuse. It’s not their style. Instead they attack the people and don’t offer any sort of evidence to back up their claim outside of Scientology run websites (Scientologymyths.info seems to be the big one today).
So the question is do you believe the testimony of people who were in and left, or do you believe people like Marge & Terryeo?
On that note, the courts tend to believe the former victims of scientology considering one of them just won $9.6 million dollars for the abuse he suffered because of them
(one of the anon help me out with a name for the dude and a youtube link, or a link to the casefile)
Comment by David — February 27, 2008 @ 6:05 pm
On the Bridge wrote: “can someone please answer on the other side”
As I wrote earlier, I am done commenting on this site.
I will cut and paste your questions, OtB, to:
http://scientologymyths.wordpress.com/
and will respond to them there. Feel free to post follow-ups, if you would like.
Comment by Marge — February 27, 2008 @ 6:06 pm
OTB, you might want to think twice about posting any comments there at Marge’s site, they can check IP addresses. I am not trying to impugn the reputation of Marge, but I would use caution. Especially if you are really a current Scientologist who’s On the Bridge.
Just sayin.
Comment by D — February 27, 2008 @ 6:11 pm
I’d like to take a stab at OTB’s questions…
1. What proof do you have it is happening today? (not in the history)
With allegations of this magnitude, is there a need for difinitive proof? Especially given the testimonials, sworn affidavits, and video interviews from ex-members accounting for the existence of truth behind the allegations. Could these people be anti-scn plants? I suppose they could be. But, is it equally possible that they could be telling the truth? Yes. That alone, to me, warrants investigation, which is what is being asked for here. Btw, did our government have PROOF of weapons of mass destruction before invading Iraq? Do police finger a prime suspect on a murder investigation based off of proof or do they do it based off of allegations or suspicion? Does DFS inspect a family based on allegations or do they wait until they have difinitive proof of it taking place? Does the IRS audit you already knowing you’ve committed tax evasion or do they do it out of suspicion? The goal here is to prevent it from happening, not to punish after the deed’s been done. Vengeance is not the goal. Prevention is.
2. If it is happening why arent authorities doing anything?
(This response will be much shorter, I promise) Look at headlines from around the world; authorities are doing something about it. That aside, who’s to say an investigation hasn’t been mounted for years, just collecting evidence? In terms of some local Clearwater police, there is videotaped evidence of their lack of concern in investigating matters where the CoS is involved (I’d cite, but you told us not to).
3. Does kids getting in a van = child abuse? What about field trips? Group outtings and so on? How does the video = abuse?
Not at all. However, the man taping it had countless hours of footage and still photographs depicting some of these allegations (specifically of child labor and the CRPF) that he was compiling into a documentary about the CoS. Unfortunately, he was found dead of an apparent suicide. Oddly, he ran a hose from his running car’s tailpipe to his house window. I’d suspect (judging by the time his body was discovered) that he did this sometime before he went to bed. It’s also entirely possible that someone else did it while he was sleeping. Of course, we’ll never know and I’d prefer not to occupy that slippery slope. Besides, it doesn’t answer your question. I guess it all ties into my first response…do you need a video of demonic looking slave wardens with CoS logos on their uniforms lording over sweating laboring children in shackles to call for an investigation or just one cry for help?
Comment by Anon, Anon, My Boyfriend's Back! — February 27, 2008 @ 6:15 pm
in response to David #42
Lawrence Wollersheim won 9.2 million, not 9.6, and was one of the few that was given a gag order on his court case.
His story here http://www.factnet.org/How_I_healed.html
His video here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQUvxP0wVTY
Court info here
http://www.raids.org/thindime.htm
and some more info on the case here
http://www.rickross.com/reference/scientology/Scien24.html
along with court case number so you can search easier
Of course everyone is welcome to do their own research as well.
And Marge, I thought one of the principles of Scientology was communication. Why would you not communicate with us? If someone is wrong show proof that they are wrong. Just like most people here are showing proof to back their statements.
Comment by Concerned Mom — February 27, 2008 @ 6:23 pm
Dear Marge,
You have proven once again that OSA and the clones short-circuit anytime people put questions to CO$ about their ‘beliefs’ and ‘practice’.
Nice try – phishing for people’s IPs – but you’re not playing with a room full of unquestioning morons, who don’t know how the internet works…
No thanks for not actually addressing any concerns expressed on this web site about CO$… you have proved that CO$ acts like it’s not accountable for all the grief it has put on people, and that it is the only ‘way’.
Your lack of humility and knowledge doesn’t surprise me, just saddens me.
Comment by beebee — February 27, 2008 @ 7:16 pm
“And Marge, I thought one of the principles of Scientology was communication.”
Thanks, Concerned Mom, that was funny.
It’s hilarious how the $cientologists misuse the words communication (which to them seems to mean giving huckster-like quick oral responses and keeping a thousand-mile stare) and ethics (always supporting $cientology and doing what’s best for the Co$).
Thanks, BTW, to all those who showed more patience than I with On the Bridge’s questions. And, On the Bridge, sorry if I seemed truculent. I’ve just encountered too much BS from $cientologists with their annoying rhetorical tactics. Sorry for lumping you in with them.
Comment by Narcissus — February 27, 2008 @ 7:41 pm
well, maybe I threw caution to the wind, I went and saw Marge’s response on that site, did not post so I dunno if they got my address from a hit or not. I want to be completely unbiased.
Over there she was much more open and willing with information and I am very thankful for that. She did make one valid point. The point about other faiths and children and it made me think about monks in China. The kids live a tough life….saw it on Fight Quest, no chairs when they eat, and they only eat rice. Rigorous training all day, meager quarters. Removing time the religion has existed from the equation is it so different? I am saying she makes a good point. What it really does is make me wonder…if Chinese monks brought that system to America would we attack it the same way?
Now, the big difference as I see it…in China, those kids can leave at any second of the day. From the report, your children cannot. And sorry, I think thats when this goes into the realm of abuse. Also, the Chinese monks are transparent…like I said, I saw this on Fight Quest. If your religion ever wants to make it, you have to have transparency, which leads back to the ‘what are you hiding?’ question.
Her answer to my first question however was a throw away. I know we are innocent until proven guilty, but accusations lead to trial where that is put to the test. Accusations is the stage it is in now.
She also compares Catholic security to that of CoS. I have to differ with her though. They have security to provide public safety, it seems CoS has it to keep people in, and to attack, I’m sorry Marge, there are just too many cases. She also claimed that the video of the kid on inquiry was told to do it as a covert operation against the church to destroy or take it over. So that takes the argument back to I say this they say that. The point is, the audio tape speaks for itself. She also goes on to say she would deff report abuses to the authorities.
Marge, I know you’ve gotten slack here, but thank you for answering questions in a responsible way, even if not here. Yes, I’m afraid to post anything there. I’ve heard to many horror stories.
Honestly Marge, with this much accusation against your church, I have to say, Scientology has to open its doors and just show the world this is what we’ve been hiding! If the church doesn’t, then it just looks worse and worse and worse.
Like I said Anons, please don’t hate on me or Marge and co. I was trying to be unbiased with those questions and how I handled them….I hope it worked, and yes, thanks to both sides of the argument I get it more now.
Comment by Off the Bridge — February 27, 2008 @ 8:57 pm
Off The Bridge: Anonymous does not hate Scientologists. Anonymous hate the actions of the Church of Scientology. A lot of Scientologists are probably very nice people, although lost and abused. Can you blame them, if they were drafted while recovering from drugs (Narconon), if they were drafted while incarcerated, while being young? No, you can’t.
We do criticize their comments here, though [for instance, danny (#38), was probably a Scientologist]. Can you blame us if they attack us and we stand our ground?
Comment by Anoynymause — February 27, 2008 @ 9:41 pm
i really appreciate someone who will stand up for what they know is right………”I REFUSE to allow those laws to be violated unchecked and I will do everything in my power to make them known to the public and the authoritie” is said so well on how we all feel….. this is not about what u beleive in this is about the actions of the church to NOT allow critism is to have NO ACCOUNTIBILTY and when people are held accountable then they feel they can do as they please….thats what laws were put in place for to make people accountable for there actions….along with freedom of speech and freedom of information
Comment by absotubely — February 27, 2008 @ 9:53 pm
OTB in regards to the valid point Marge made, some counterpoints:
A. China is mostly a third world country where a large majority live in similar conditions. This would be more the rule than the exception in China when compared to the populace as a whole.
B. Chinese monastic orders have been around for centuries and thus have a very rich histories and traditions that date back to before Tang/Song dynasty when chairs were first introduced. Chinese, much like the Japanese, used to sit on the floor while they ate.
C. Monks live a humble life devoid of the creature comforts western society takes for granted. The treatment is essentially the same across the board in those Monastic orders. For example, you won’t see the head of the order going on vacations with celebrities and making their homes in mansions.
D. Yes, they are subject to extensive training and study that many would consider grueling, however, this is a personal journey of discipline and enlightenment that, as you said, any young monk-in-training can depart from of his own volition.
How these points translate into arguments against the CoS are as follows:
A. The country where these allegations stem from (the US) is not a third world country but is, in fact, by definition, a first world country and the conditions described in these allegations are and exception and not the rule.
B. The CoS does not have this history of tradition where these allegations are concerned. Even if they did, the laws governing the land in which it operates criminalizes them.
C. Dave Miscavige and other top tier CoS execs do not live the squalid lives detailed in the allegations. Much the opposite and far from humble.
D. It really goes unspoken that, if a foreign child in America who either doesn’t or can’t speak English, doesn’t have papers identifying them, is under 24/7 surveillance, and has no one to turn to cannot leave the CoS of their own volition.
This could go on forever, but, in my opinion, comparing the children of a Chinese Monastic order and the children of an American CoS is more like apples and oranges.
Comment by Anon, Anon, My Boyfriend's Back! — February 27, 2008 @ 10:50 pm
Excellent points #52, and I would like to point out also that just because one culture approves, or at the very least allows, children to be subjected to harsh conditions, does not mean we should be accepting of this behavior as a whole. Children are the one group in society who should be spared whenever possible of the terrors that await us as adults.
The human condition of any person should be a concern for us all, this holds doubly true of children.
Simply because I can’t fix all the problems for all the world’s children, doesn’t mean I shouldn’t do anything about the one’s I can help. That’s defeatist and I don’t subscribe to the Ayn Rand version of humanity that we should only look out for ourselves.
My faith teaches me otherwise, and so too, should Scientology.
Comment by D — February 27, 2008 @ 11:18 pm
Well said, D.
Comment by beebee — February 28, 2008 @ 12:38 am
Amazing, isn’t it? The Scientology hypocrisy never fails to astonish me. These people are *defending* child abuse! They are so indoctrinated, they see nothing wrong with working these kids, putting them at risk in jobs they aren’t trained for, denying them a decent education and stealing their youth.
Two things stand out.
One is the demand of proof. Oh, sure, we have pictures from last week of kids doing hard labor, but how about NOW? (yet they have no problem with dragging out minor transgressions that are 40 years old to flog critics with)
Second is the old “If it’s illegal, why hasn’t Scientology been prosecuted?” Simple. Who the hell has the resources to take on a litigious crackpot force that will spend millions to harass and destroy an opponent in court? Are you freaking kidding me?
Teh Internets will be Scientology’s Vietnam. When the dust finally settles, an awful lot of people who have defended this vicious, grasping, totalitarian CULT are going to be real sorry. Like the guy who called us all “idoits.” When you people get your minds back, you are gonna feel soooo stupid! But that’s okay. We’ll love ya anyway because we understand.
Comment by Imominous — February 28, 2008 @ 3:48 am
I can’t believe how gullible you all are. I am LAUGHING OUT LOUD at how you just blindly accept these videos as evidence. Guess what – in Hollywood, they have been faking videos for decades. There are a lot of victim testimonies and accounts made by (biased) ex-scientologists, but did you know that eyewitness testimony has been proven to be extremely unreliable as a form of evidence? Of course you didn’t, because you’ve already made up your mind and decided we are guilty.
I think you will find that every child working for Scientology is a willing volunteer. If they claim they cannot see their parents much, it is only because their parents are hard-working, dedicated Scientologists who don’t have much time to interact with them. This might seem like a bad thing to you, but if you knew what we knew, then you would know that learning the tech and keeping the Orgs running is far more rewarding than some idle chit-chat with Mom. The kids are there because they are happy. Why can’t you just let them be happy? Are you afraid because you don’t understand how to be happy? Is it the guilt from your crimes?
And don’t listen to anything Jenna Miscavige Hill said in her open letter and her interview with Inside Edition (which is actually a religious hate group), I don’t have the patience to list all of her crimes here.
Comment by Jeanne — February 28, 2008 @ 9:07 am
Whoa #56!! I’m hoping that is a person acting like you to make CoS look bad! Please, don’t tell me this is what you really think! Don’t listen to Jenna? Inside Edition a religious hate group? Idle-chit-chat with Mom not rewarding???
Seriously, tell me this is a person trying to make Co$ look bad. Reading what you have to say about rewarding work, and knowing what we know….honestly, my mind’s picture is now the end of Temple of Doom with all the kids in the mine as slaves.
Not only that but the rhetoric of rewarding for the Org is greater than family sounds straight Nazi, Stalinist era Russia, or any other Totalitarian regime that puts itself before its people….and if you noticed, America and the WORLD have a problem with groups that do this kind of thing. I really hope you arent really Jeanne with nightmarish images like what you painted.
Comment by On the Bridge — February 28, 2008 @ 9:41 am
Jeanne (Post #56):
Jonestown also had a really good work ethic.
Similarly, they also fed on a diet of rice and beans.
Children also were expected to maintain this rigorous work schedule.
They were also unable to leave.
They were also forced to convey the message that they were ‘happy’.
And then, when the government came at the request of the ‘disconnected’ family members, cyanide laced flavor-aid was ordered on all by their leader (who opted to go by bullet instead).
The children were the first to die.
That doesn’t concern you? Even a little?
Where DOES the bridge lead? What IS OTIX and beyond?
Could it involve losing your life?
Is THAT the God-Like power that you have been promised?
Does THAT make the world/universe a better place?
How did that work out for the residents of Jonestown?
These are not accusations, they are questions.
One’s you should be asking as you are on the path yourself. The similarities are a bit eerie.
Just what IS the promised endgame?
Comment by Anon1376 — February 28, 2008 @ 10:31 am
Yeah…er, #56 gave me chills. I have to believe it’s a troll.
Comment by Anonymous — February 28, 2008 @ 10:54 am
Oh, no, OTB. That’s her. Those are her views (and the views of many like her).
“I can’t believe how gullible you all are.”
You’re right. We’re gullible for believing the tons of sworn testimonies, affidavits, and video interviews out there but you, being the esteemed Scientologist that you are, are far from it having been told time and time again that these things are orchestrated by some anti-CoS group and believing it.
“…they have been faking videos for decades.”
Wow, and I thought I was dangerously close to the conspiracy theorist’s slippery slope.
“…but did you know that eyewitness testimony has been proven to be extremely unreliable as a form of evidence?”
These aren’t “eyewitness” testimonies we’re talking about, they are frist hand accounts for the most part. Did you know, reliable or not, even eyewitness testimony is STILL a form of evidence? The investigations that come as a result of those eyewitness accounts and allegations typically yield the solid evidence you seem so fixated on. And, forgive me if I’m wrong, but I think what we are all calling for is an investigation. But then, to quote LRH from the “Attacks on Scientology” lecture, “never agree to an investigation of Scientology”. You’ll need to be more transparent with your operations if you wish to dispell these “myths”.
“…because you’ve already made up your mind and decided we are guilty”
That’s to be left up to a court of law. But, if you (meaning the CoS. I’m not implicating you personally by any means) don’t have your day in court, it’s completely left to speculation. To me, your chants of “innocent until proven guilty” sound an awful lot like “it’s not a crime if you don’t get caught”.
“The kids are there because they are happy. Why can’t you just let them be happy?”
So, “if it feels good, do it”? Even if the children are happy, is the situation detrimental to their wellbeing? They are receiving poor education, poor health care, living in scant quarters often times with several other children, have no guidance from their paternal guardians, and, what’s worse, couldn’t leave if they wanted to. Here’s the crux: You say they can leave if they want to, however they are still minors and still subject to their Sea Org parents’ will. On top of that, they don’t have papers identifying them. And, notice the hypocrisy here: when the law works in your favor (i.e. minor laws) you embrace it even though it is contradictory to your belief that these children are millions of year old souls who aren’t really children at all and deserve to be treated as adults. Please, explain?
“Are you afraid because you don’t understand how to be happy? Is it the guilt from your crimes?”
Here we go…I think all anyone wants from you is the PROOF that you are doing good. No one wants to stop you from doing good. No one wants to stop you from getting ahead. The speeding I did on the way to work does not make me want to drag you down. See, you are screaming for proof and our lack of it. I’m screaming for proof and your lack of it. And I’m not talking about some written testimony in a CoS pamphlet. Wait, I almost forgot, you guys are responsible for the collapse of the Berlin Wall, right? Where is all this good you’re doing for the planet? Most of the good deeds I’ve seen touted around by CoS are so transparently aimed at drumming up new recruits and getting good PR it’s rediculous. I’ve done several charitable things without some personal agenda and without spouting off about how good I am for having done them. Integrity is doing the right thing when nobody knows you did it. Every time you so much as walk an old lady across the street it becomes a PR event.
“I don’t have the patience to list all of her crimes here.”
You also don’t have the proof, the creative mind to think them up, or the cohones to accuse someone as high profile as her. Once again, I’ll ask, why was she good enough then (when she was in) but now that she’s out she’s a criminal? With all the CoS declared criminals in the world (ex members, CURRENT members [look through their PC files], critics, disabled, the psychiatric community, and the mentally ill) and with how quick you all are to point out everyone’s criminality from LRH’s warped perspective, is it fair to say you don’t adhere to the line in your creed that says “man is basically good”? Can we have someone squirrel that out of the creed because, from all my dealings with CoS members, man is basically criminal.
It’s also funny how you treat your members when found guilty of a crime or when they are found to be mentally unstable…you offload them. “Thanks for all the money, devotion, and work (mostly the money) but now that you’ve created a flap in the media and gotten caught and because we don’t want anyone poking their noses around, you are hereby banished from the Church. No rehabilitation. It’s bad PR. So, see ya later, and oh, don’t tell anyone about your experiences otherwise we’ll air-fay ame-gay you. Peace!”
Funny that you should also run a criminal rehabilitation organization…
Comment by Anon, Anon, My Boyfriend's Back! — February 28, 2008 @ 11:33 am
The funniest, most ridicule-worthy part of Jeanne’s remarks at 56? She starts off by saying she’s “laughing out loud” at others’ gullibility, and then ends with the old $ci tactic of alluding to a critic’s “crimes”.
That is fucking classic.
Comment by Narcissus — February 28, 2008 @ 11:42 am
One more thing: Why haven’t these $cientologists realized how ridiculous they sound with this nonsense about other people’s crimes? Why can’t they realize it just makes them sound like demented cult members who can’t think for themselves?
Comment by Narcissus — February 28, 2008 @ 11:55 am
Because, Narcissus, ’source’ is dead and can’t revamp the policy. All DM can do is update typeface and run a spell check…maybe add some chapters…cancel some HCOs…come to think of it, I think Dave “the Midget” Miscavige should squirrel out a new “undiscovered” P/L that says, “Cancel: Always attack, never defend. Cancel: Everyone who is critical of Scientology is a criminal. Ehh, f*ck it, cancel the whole damn thing, the shit’s getting too thick around here, I quit. See you in Barbados.”
Comment by Anon, Anon, My Boyfriend's Back! — February 28, 2008 @ 12:46 pm
From the CO$ – “I think you will find that every child working for Scientology is a willing volunteer. If they claim they cannot see their parents much, it is only because their parents are hard-working, dedicated Scientologists who don’t have much time to interact with them. This might seem like a bad thing to you, but if you knew what we knew, then you would know that learning the tech and keeping the Orgs running is far more rewarding than some idle chit-chat with Mom. The kids are there because they are happy. Why can’t you just let them be happy? Are you afraid because you don’t understand how to be happy? Is it the guilt from your crimes?”
If this is truly what the CO$ believe the CO$ is even more frighten then I thought! They believe in child labour, separating children from parents is ok as long as the parents are working for the “greater good” of the CO$. My only crime I guess is finding these beliefs to be criminal.
Comment by truthseeker — February 28, 2008 @ 12:57 pm
Here’s a link to contact: aiusaso@aiusa.org this is Amnesty International Southern Division
Comment by Anon Angl — February 28, 2008 @ 2:15 pm
Kids in Sea Org = Hitlerjugend.
They were figthing willingly for the cause.
Treated much the same too.
You are so blinded it’s shocking everyone who reads your words.
And you call Anonymous Nazi’s?
Comment by Kek — February 28, 2008 @ 2:51 pm
And no, I didn’t Godwin. I reversed it :-p
But remember everyone, it’s not Jeanne who’s writing this gibberish. It’s L. Ron Fubbards doctrine (read: brainwash).
Jeanne, remember that this is not an attack on you as a person. I hope you get to see the truth someday and find the real you – one who is a person with your own ideas and opinions. Someone who can think freely and not be afraid to speak up. Someone who can love and be with the rest of the family, even if they’re not members of/critical to the Church. If scientology means so much to you, there are people out there who does not need a billion year contract or $400.000 fees to help you out in your progression for enlightenment, neither do they boss you around, sec check you or audit you every time you do something they consider bad.
Knowledge is power.
Arm yourself.
Comment by Kek — February 28, 2008 @ 3:00 pm
Jeanne please tell us that you refute everything in post 56, that is just sickening. But unfortunately it is consistent with the things we hear from ex-members like this – http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=57816#post57816
Comment by FatMan — February 28, 2008 @ 7:01 pm
Jeanne, here’s a picture for you: http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/7923/rewardingjx4.jpg
Believe it or not, children need parents for their development.
Comment by anonime — February 28, 2008 @ 7:47 pm
And Jeanne proves that OSA is so embattled and freaking out – that they inadvertently are showing their true colors. CO$ do believe in child slavery. They do not respect family. They are only interested in upgrading their ‘stats’ and making money. A pyramid scheme that is in danger of collapsing very soon. Keep the pressure on.
Those who figure out this danger to their health will start blowing. Be ready to offer them support.
Show the humility and respect that CO$ will not and cannot do.
Comment by beebee — February 28, 2008 @ 8:24 pm
these clips are from “missing in happy valley” a very good documentary you can find on google video.
Comment by Anonymous — February 28, 2008 @ 9:08 pm
Is it the guilt from your crimes?
WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES?
Comment by Dio Brando — February 28, 2008 @ 9:25 pm
@ #56:
Thank you for explaining so clearly why your organization needs to be put six feet under. Your disregard for the well-being of your own member’s children is beyond abominable, it is inhuman, cold-hearted, and evil. You should be ashamed for stating such blatant disregard for the care of children! Nothing is more important than a child, any child, and if you cannot see that, then you are below the scum of the earth.
If this is the viewpoint of the entire church, then I hope it is wiped from existence from the face of the earth, and I will gladly help accomplish that!
My resolve is clear now and my will is strong. I will never rest so long as one child is in the grasp of these monsters, and I swear to God I will let the rest of the world know!
Comment by Mouse — February 28, 2008 @ 9:31 pm
I am reprinting copies of Jeanne’s post on various forums that I post on. More people need to read this pure insanity, paranoia towards critics, and callousness towards children – the cult of $cientology’s true colors revealed full-frontally.
Also, I got a belly-laugh out of her calling Inside Edition a ‘religious hate group.’
Comment by GregM — February 28, 2008 @ 10:01 pm
Was that the real Jeanne though?
Comment by MaxwellSmart — February 28, 2008 @ 10:39 pm
“Was that the real Jeanne though?”
I don’t see any denial from the real Jeanne. And I would think one her co-workers at Flag or wherever she is would tell her about the posting.
Comment by Narcissus — February 28, 2008 @ 10:51 pm
SCIENTOLOGY NOT ONLY SAYS THAT CHILDREN ARE MILLION YEAR OLD SOULS IN NEW BODIES, BUT BECAUSE THEY ARE MILLIONS OF YEARS OLD THAT HAVING SEX WITH THEM IS NECESSARY.
SCIENTOLOGY ENCOURAGES SEX WITH CHILDREN. IT DEMANDS IT.
http://www.taxexemptchildabuse.net
Comment by Anonymousey — February 28, 2008 @ 11:09 pm
Well thanks to Marge and a few others on here I’ve done a bit more research. Turns out that certain members are chosen to go online to find critics and the make comments that are pro-scientology. They have some kind of weekly report they fill out (for commission? something like that) It gets turned in every Thursday at 2pm. So she was probably just getting her numbers up making that post and is now busy with end of week paperwork. After all, it seems that it is just a numbers game with CoS. And obviously children are not number one.
Thank you for telling us how it really is inside for those children, Jeanne. Now we know our fears were true and we need to do something for those children now. What kind of religion forces parents away from their children and thinks it is a good thing? How does that bring the family together at all? Or make them happy well adjusted people? But, at least you communicated with us, unlike Marge and her ilk.
D, thank you for bringing this to our attention. I will be forwarding this info on to the correct authorities and to others who don’t yet know about this.
Comment by Concerned Mom — February 28, 2008 @ 11:11 pm
77
ok, now I am just going to cry and vomit.
Comment by Concerned Mom — February 28, 2008 @ 11:12 pm
79.
From CHILD DIANETICS: Dianetic Processing for Children by L. Ron Hubbard—-
“But how many people think babies are just too, too beautiful who, at the same time, feel that sex is just too, too nasty? The second dynamic must include not only sex and the sex act, but also children.”
“You can actually punish a child physically to defend your rights.”
“If you want to know how to control [your child] get a book on dog training, name the child Rex, and teach him first to ‘fetch’ and then ’sit up’ and then to bark for his food.”
Comment by Anonymoo — February 28, 2008 @ 11:28 pm
Read this. Why is it that there are so many ex-Scientologists with such horrifying stories of their childhood? Why is it so many upper-level Scientologists have children who have been disconnected? Why?
http://www.exscientologykids.com/astra1.html
Comment by Anonymoose — February 28, 2008 @ 11:56 pm
Anonymousey @ 77, be careful. Your statements seem pretty over the top. The sort of things $cientologists would love to cite to support their cries of “religious bigotry.” I did a quick browse through that website and saw a lot of stuff about child abuse, but nothing about $cientology mandating sex with children. (Maybe it’s there, but it doesn’t seem to be a very prominent part of the site. And I would expect mandated child molestation would be at the top of any indictment of how an organization abuses kids.)
Anonymoo @ 80, that first paragraph you quote could be encouragement to $cientologists to mate and become parents, couldn’t it?
I want to see the Co$ die, too, guys. I’m just saying we all should be careful not to do and say things that can undercut the anti-Co$ movement.
Comment by Xenudo — February 29, 2008 @ 12:46 am
82
Agreed. Reading too much into what’s written in those books is a slippery slope. Let’s all keep in mind that LRH wasn’t a very good author and stick to first hand accounts of the abuses. It could well be true that they advocate sex with children, but the more likely case is that we don’t understand Hubbard’s drivel…
Comment by Anon, Anon, My Boyfriend's Back! — February 29, 2008 @ 11:20 am
You guys— One of the biggest reasons on why these Scientologists can’t rationalize what your telling them is because they have absolutely no education whatsoever.(which is itself child abuse) They have had it drilled into their heads that schools teach nothing but lies and are pointless when you know about Scientology. They believe that Scientology is the only thing one needs to know in life and the world. So you can imagine how that would stunt someone’s mind and all the wonderful things they miss out on. When I was in the church I stated once how I might consider going to college. I was immediately rebutted by the group and told there was no point in it and that doing your “Key To Life and Life Orientation Course” would be the equivalent of studying at a 4 year university. And because of things like that, they think they are more intelligent than anyone else. Also I was really surprised by how many people had no basic education about history and math, especially spelling and the rest of normal subjects most people learn in middle school. Scientology’s young people drop out of school as soon as possible and their parents support it.(but they’re status raises and are completely love bombed and validated when they finish something in Scientology.
They can’t express themselves via language to communicate because all they’ve been taught is a language only Scientologists speak. I’ve had a very hard time with that one. I could’nt express myself at all to people outside the church. No one understood what I was saying. So don’t get upset if they don’t understand simple facts. They literally can’t, their brain hasn’t been taught to. They can only figure that if your outside the church, then your either a wog or an SP and you are only capable of telling lies and are hell bent on destroying anything that works for anyone. Even the higher ups have no basic education. There is no Science in Scientology. They don’t know the first bloody thing about Science. Show me an individual with an advanced Science degree. Yet, they “know” about science that us little wog’s would’nt understand. Its sad that their mind gets stunted at such a young age. But just please know, this is what we’re dealing with here. These people have been through a lot of abuse. And this is just one tiny part of all the other things going on there.
Comment by I love Anonymous — February 29, 2008 @ 12:16 pm
Simple Math even OSA can understand:
(Jeanne’s comment + ExScientologyKids) * emails to Amnesty International = Investigation.
Thank you Jeanne, without your comment, which has now been replicated across the web you personally gave evidence FROM THE INSIDE, as to the views. You have aided Scientology’s critics in more ways than they probably ever thought possible. When agencies come knocking on the door, you can thank yourself for making it happen so soon.
Comment by On the Bridge — February 29, 2008 @ 1:33 pm