Comments on: Glosslip Radio Co-Hosts With Alan Levy In Interview With Andrew Morton, Today At 4:00pm EST

By: Mitsu Too

Mitsu Too — Sun, 30 Mar 2008 00:00:39 +0000

#26 A real religion or church is about community and family…taking care of each other, the strong help the weak, the rich the poor, the able help the disable…etc. The CoS is a cult of me…only the self matters…auditing gets rid of your guilts and shames to the point of it doesn’t matter. This explains disconnection…if you are not good for me you are of no value to me. If you are an obstacle to me you are to be ranpled, ignored or eliminated. Even their belief in reincarnation is not the reincarnation of Hinduism of reaching higher levels of betterment or attonment for past not so good lives. The CoS tells their followers that if you didn’t quite get it right it don’t matter. Shed your old shell for a newer model and try it again. Anyone who saw Jeanne Marie’s video knows that her father basically committed suicide so he could go back and start over. The CoS promotes a religion of “no conscious”, “no Fault”, no accountability for anything they do. KSW Keep Scientology working, you’re either in or your out, some day SPs will only be something you read of in the history books, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA….Tom Cruise. They should rename it the Church of Narcissus.

By: DT100

DT100 — Sat, 29 Mar 2008 23:42:25 +0000

@bgodly
You say they aren’t trying to say those that suffer don’t matter but in the next breath you say the stories of suffering aren’t true. That doesn’t make sense to me. It also doesn’t make sense that a girl like Chandra on the kids site would fabricate such a thing. Her story had the ring of truth to me. Some of the positive stories I’ve read about members experiencing great things have the ring of truth for me as well. I doubt all of the people with horror stories are lying any more than the people who claim great improvements.

What I don’t understand is why on earth those having a good experience don’t seem committed to making sure the same is true for everybody involved. Isn’t that the point of spirituality and the community of church? Isn’t it about looking out for each other as well as ourselves?

If one isn’t concerned with the welfare of the man/woman sitting in the next pew then can we honestly say that we are improved or somehow enlightened? The group is only as strong as it’s weakest member. If you leave that weak member to flounder that reflects negatively on the group as a whole don’t you think?

By: DT100

DT100 — Sat, 29 Mar 2008 23:31:25 +0000

@Rick A.
Thank you for your answer. So in essence the less emotion a person conveys the better they are? That cant be right. If a group of people are taught to eliminate sympathy the end result would be horrible. They would turn on each other constantly in the most awful ways because their self interest would always be first and foremost. Who would willingly choose to become like that? The ability to sympathize and empathize is what separates us from the animals.

By: bgodley

bgodley — Sat, 29 Mar 2008 21:41:06 +0000

Dave Stone how do you feel about the CoS covering up their own sexual abuse cases? Sounds to me like the Catholic Church is a choirboy (pun intended) compared to the CoS’ ability to cover up its dirty laundry

Also I hope you like being added to the inb4 list

By: jeannie36832

jeannie36832 — Sat, 29 Mar 2008 21:01:45 +0000

Sharon, the difference is that when the Christian Science people start their abuses, the media is not afraid to report it. Family services are not afraid to go in and take a child away from a parent who is not providing medical care. And most importantly, prosecutors are not afraid to charge them for fear all of the witnesses will be sued and harassed into changing their testimony.

By: Thomas

Thomas — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 21:09:30 +0000

Re#21.

It’s an odd bit of reasoning…. You’re certainly free to protest all the institutions that you’ve mentioned. You have my encouragement to peacefully protest any institution that you think is doing wrong. Can I assume that we have your support to peacefully protest an institution that we thing is doing wrong??

By: Sharon Noel

Sharon Noel — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 20:47:53 +0000

This whole attack on the church of scientoloty has me wondering why just single out this church? It is well known that the christian science church is responsible for countless deaths of adults and children. So are many fundamental churches and societies. Actually the church of scientologys’ track record, as to deaths related to its’ teachings, is a drop in the bucket compared to deaths attributed to christian scientists and many other so called faith healers! Why not go after these churches and societies who for the most part get off scott free!

By: Anoynymause

Anoynymause — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 17:02:07 +0000

Dave: I don’t believe that any Church should handle illegal actions within itself on its own. Proper legal actions should be taken, and that does mean investigation by police and proper jurisdictive processes. This goes for the Church of Scientology as well as any Church who’s members and/or higher-ups might be doing illegal activities. And it’s not just one thing in CoS, it’s many, including things that are ordered by the higher ups within it, which makes it all the more alarming.

We are selective because Anonymous wasn’t presented to things such as Tibet, or child slavery, or what-have-you; we were presented with the Church of Scientology. A lot of it has to do with the lulz, but many Anonymous have found that this is very serious business, and have taken the issue at heart. Also, Tibet is in China, whereas Scientology’s tax-exempt status and crimes are happening in our backyards. It’s a gorilla no one wants to talk about.
How does taking action on an issue we find important makes us hypocrites, exactly?

On your comments concerning the Crusades, and deaths that have happened within other religions : It is a reasonable argument, except for the time-frame. The Crusades happened a lot longer than 50, 100 years ago, and people were dying left and right for a lot of reasons (sounds callous, but it’s true). Whether it was for the Kings and Queens, or for “Science”, or because of bad hygiene. And in the regards to the Crusades, the Church has at least had the dignity to come out, take responsibility for these things and apologize. This has yet to happen within the Church of Scientology, which feverently denies allegations and sues anyone who dares speak out (just look at Gregg, for instance!). Not to mention that their crimes are much more recent, and happening -right now-. I’m sure if people had the same moral fiber today than they had back when the Crusades were happening, people would be picketing -their- actions, wouldn’t you agree? Now is the Church of Scientology’s turn.

And I do believe that the Church of Scientology’s followers who claim nothing but good comes out of Scientology, are saying that the people who’ve had bad experiences account for nothing. Why else would they claim a “100% success rate” in almost all their programs?

In regards to your first post, I do not believe that all Scientologists are horrible people, however, they -are- being victimized. Of course you always have the freedom to do what you want. However, what you want will be affected by peer pressure and social stigma, something that the Church of Scientology operates on very strongly. I mean, I’d sure like to wear a dress (and this is just me speaking, not on the behalf of anyone else), and I do have the right to do so, both legally and because of my free will. However, society frowns down upon men wearing women’s clothes, so I won’t do it. When the Church of Scientology controls what is for you Society (through such things as Disconnection and censoring the outside world), they control what Society expects from you, and Society expects you to follow the Tech, continue with the Auditing, and to keep paying.

By: D

Fri, 28 Mar 2008 15:03:14 +0000

Dave,

I am not a member of Anonymous. I am a member of the media. I am a journalist. Don’t confuse the fact that I have an opinion and I am willing to share it as anything other than that.

While I appreciate your measured response, I find you quite uncredible. I accept that you experiences are your own, but the Church of Scientology has a track record of doing HORRIBLE things to people, and this has not changed in any way over the years.

There are too many stories I’ve heard first hand from people OUT of the church to be able to believe any of your claims to the contrary. I mean you no disrespect, and I am deeply thankful you are not disconnected from your family now.

But many people are. This is a crime against everything I hold dear and believe about what a religion should be. Scientology at its core it evil, this however, does not mean Scientologists are evil.

Plenty of people in Nazi Germany weren’t evil either, but you can’t allow your innate desire to protect yourself to keep you from doing the right thing. If NO ONE chooses to do the right thing, what kind of world would be live in?

Not one I’d choose, that’s for certain.

By: Mark

Mark — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 12:25:08 +0000

Dave,
don’t tell me that people disconnects by their own will! I got expelled after 15 years because I refused to disconnect from a friend who was unjustly declared “Suppressive”. Go to the ex-scientology forum (forum.exscn.net) and there are hundreds of disconnected people for silly reasons.

If you are so lucky to have been allowed by the Church to read the internet, then go to that site and start reading.
Thousands of people have been declared “Suppressive Person” for political reasons in the Church, and their families and friendships cut into pieces. Read what happened to David Mayo, he was a high tech staff, Class XII, author of the NOTs materials, read the harassments he went trough.

There also people who had been forced to have abortions, and you know that’s true. You know Sea Org members are not allowed to have children, they are offloaded and charged for all services taken (freeloader) if they decide to keep their babies.

Nobody is fighting against a religious practice or belief of Scientologists. I am fighting, and will continue to fight against the abuses of Church of Scientology, until:

1) The Church of Scientology cease to impose disconnection on people.
2) The Church stops to harass independent scientologist.
3) The Church of Scientology allows freedom of speech.
4) I’ll get my money back.

If you are happy with the abuses of the Church, if you thinks forcing Sea Org staff to have abortions is the greatest good, if you think David Mayo was really an SP as are all the SP declared people, then go on, live your dream, but accept the responsibility for it also.

By the way, do you know that the Disconnection policy was cancelled by Hubbard and then reinstated by Miscavige?

“I have personal knowledge that material was written and issued under the name of L. Ron Hubbard that he did not author. While working at ASI*, I personally wrote material to be issued under his name for several years. This ranged from simple messages to be sent to various organizational staff on events such as his birthday or a holiday, to my composing an entire large directive that was issued under his name. In these instances, they were done without his knowledge or consent. The directive that I wrote concerned the Scientology policy of ‘Disconnection’. The order to do this came from David Miscavige. Miscavige said that we had to reinstitute the Policy of Disconnection and that I was to write the policy for this. I wrote it and it went through several revisions. It was not sent to Hubbard for his approval, but was issued into the Church of Scientology. I might note that at the time I was not working for the Church of Scientology, but was working for a for-profit corporation.”

Declaration of Robert Vaughn Young,
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLORADO - Civil Action No. 95-K-2143