Wikileaks.org Tells Church Of Scientology To Get Bent
We could have seen this one coming ten miles away. The RTC, or Religious Technology Center as it also known (David Miscavige is President) has issued a cease and desist letter to Wikileaks.org for posting several high level and “copyrighted”
documents on its site. From the WikiNews article:
On March 9, 2008, Wikileaks published several documents relating to the Church’s Office of Special Affairs and personal notes gathered by Frank Oliver, a former Scientologist and former member of the Church’s Special Affairs office. On March 26, 2008, Wikileaks published the entire set of the Churches ‘Operating Thetan Level’ documents which included handwritten notes by Scientology’s founder L. Ron Hubbard.
Although the letter does not mention specific legal threats against Wikileaks, the letter asks that they “preserve any and all documents pertaining to this matter and this customer, including, but not limited to, logs, data entry sheets, applications — electronic or otherwise, registrations forms, billings statements or invoices, computer print-outs, disks, hard drives, etc.”
Despite the letter, Wikileaks states they will not to comply with the “abusive request” by the Church.
“Wikileaks will not comply with legally abusive requests from Scientology any more than Wikileaks has complied with similar demands from Swiss banks, Russian off-shore stem cell centers, former African Kleptocrats, or the Pentagon. Wikileaks will remain a place where people of the world may safely expose injustice and corruption,” stated Wikileaks in a statement on their website.
The data posted is the Operating Thetan Levels 1 through 8 and these documents are considered secret and I’ve heard that when you pay your $300,000 plus “donations” to the Church, they send you in a sealed room, with the sealed documents (OT levels) and you must sign all sorts of legal documents declaring you will never tell another soul what you saw.
*rolls eyes*
Well, I guess so much for all the secrecy. Now, like any sacred scripture meant to enlighten and guide spiritually those who desire truth and wisdom, they need only venture over to WIKILEAKS.ORG for their fix of Hubbard goodness.
My advice to Wikileaks is DON’T PULL THOSE DOCS. Gawker doubled their traffic and made a assload of money for refusing to pull some goofy video of Tom Cruise spewing like a Scilon puppet, imagine the gold bouillon those OT Levels will bring you.
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Damn, FIRST !
Comment by Terryeo [TM] — April 7, 2008 @ 1:29 am
It would be best to respect copyrights, don’t you think? Of course “intellectual property” might be beyond the ken of certain newspapers, but if it were your book, your copyright, what tune would you sing?
Comment by Terryeo [UnTrademarked] — April 7, 2008 @ 1:31 am
Also they promised to release more than a thousand pages of CO$ material this next week.
Comment by Doctor — April 7, 2008 @ 1:38 am
Wikileaks isn’t in it for the money. They’re in it to give the powers that be the finger. And good on them.
Comment by Anon678 — April 7, 2008 @ 1:42 am
Wikileaks’ host are the same people who host The Pirate Bay. In other words, the lawsuit will be completely ignored.
Comment by Anonymous — April 7, 2008 @ 2:01 am
Dawn, don’t ever quit. We love you. <3
Comment by Anonymous — April 7, 2008 @ 2:07 am
Terryeo, your point would be valid if Scientology did not lie and pull bait and switches on potential recruits/converts. (Such as spokesmen of Scientology lying about Xenu being not part of OTIII, among other things)
The lies told by management make these leaks important.
Comment by Maxwell Smart — April 7, 2008 @ 2:08 am
sueing to pull documents they claim copyrights on and claim are FALSE? wtf?!?!
Comment by marcab — April 7, 2008 @ 2:13 am
HCOPL 7 April 2007 r/c/l;48
attn: Scientology Legal Department
SUE THE INTERNET GO GO GO
Comment by David Miscavige — April 7, 2008 @ 2:18 am
A glorious day it will be when Scientology stirs up more of the internet hive. They don’t learn
I don’t think they really thought out the consequences of attacking Wikileaks. mwahahha.
Comment by Maxwell Smart — April 7, 2008 @ 2:28 am
Oh dear. This should go well for Scientology. What could possibly go wrong?
*cough*
Comment by David Mudkips — April 7, 2008 @ 2:58 am
So, um…
Doesn’t Scientology sueing Wikileaks over this content:
1) Prove that it’s real Scientology content, and by association
2) Prove that the Xenu story is true?
We know it is, of course, but it’s going to be awfully hard to explain why they’re trying to remove material that they deny exists in the first place.
Comment by Jaster — April 7, 2008 @ 3:25 am
Go wikileaks!!! This is awesome. CoS really hasn’t learnt !
Comment by John Smith — April 7, 2008 @ 5:13 am
Thats the big thing here: They admit the Xenu story by validating the OT3 document by claiming copyright.
Of course, then there’s the other elephant in the room: a “religion” keeping its beliefs secret via copyright law. I suppose wanting to enlighten people takes a backseat to enlightening their wallets first.
Comment by Anonymous — April 7, 2008 @ 5:28 am
I looked at the long document, a few weeks ago, when Wikileaks first linked to it. I then asked some ex members who are experts, and I found out that some of the materials in the long document are the current revisions of Hubbard’s theology, and some of the material are older versions of more recently used
Hubbard “scriptures.” But all the material is all from Hubbard, and in my view all valid to be looked at to understand the Scientology theology. I was in the movement for 27 years, and didn’t even get to read ANY of that material while I was in the movement! Some was very enlightening to me, some ridiculous, but I am glad I finally got to read it! It is sad that people can be in Scientology for almost 30 years, I was one, and NOT find out what the real theology is of the movement. I didn’t find out until I got out, that Hubbard believed all humankind, each person, person by person, we are infested (not really, but Hubbard believed it, and he made followers accept this) with tens of thousands of bodiless souls (Scientology calls them “body thetans”). There is a huge surplus (not really, but Hubbard believes it, and I suppose others have conjectured on this, like Edgar Cayce) of souls circling and roaming earth. Hubbard said these surplus souls got here due to a long ago space leader named Xenu committing a massive scale genocide here on earth, and Xenu implanted (brainwashed with false ideas) the huge number of bodiless souls (”body thetans”) that have been trapped here on earth for 75 million years. 75 million years ago the genocide incident occured (not really, but Hubbard said it occured, so this is the theology that followers are lead to accept). The surplus souls (body thetans) stick to every human being’s body today, and only Scientology’s no longer confidential “upper level” procedures, called OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7, the levels where one pays big bucks to reach, and once you get there, the Scientologists are NOT allowed to speak about these no longer confidential levels. I think the argument of Wikileaks is the historically correct and principled stance. I think knowing about “body thetans” infesting all of us, that is knowledge I would like to have been told when I joined Scientology. This no longer “confidential” theology of Scientology is harmless to be made public at this point. It’s all been spread around already. In the early 1990s the New York Times noted that no one is dying from hearing this “confidential” theology (ill effects are what Hubbard cautioned was the reason this material should remain confidential). I only learned this theology when I got out of Scientology after 27 years, and I looked on the internet! Scientology is the only modern new religious movement where the general public now knows more about the movement’s theology than the members stuck inside Scientology’s enforced ignorance system that protects them from this “confidential” theology. I support anyone sharing publicly this no longer confidential theology freely. Hubbard died before the leaking of the confidential theology became so widespread. I think he would have dealt with the problem were he alive. This is an example of being stuck with one’s hands on the steering wheel and NOT having the authorization to change course. Hubbard left them with rules they were not to tamper with, and this confidential theology protection rule was one of those unchangeable rules they are stuck with today. I sympathize with the Scientology leadership’s challenge of how to reform their movement. There is a ray of hope on the reform horizon though. There are some freezone Scientologists (ex official Scientologists who are NOT condoned by official Scientology) who have dispensed with Hubbard’s worst rules. I think we are facing an underresearched new religious movement, because my opinion is that a well educated religious movement scholar would see and report on how the “reform” freezone Scientologists have seemed to have thought their way around Hubbard’s worst bad rules! The splinter group freezone Scientologists have taken the sensible reform direction away from Hubbard worst rules. That’s to me the logical course official Scientology should follow. Chuck Beatty ex Scientology staff member, 1975-2003. 412-260-1170, Pittsburgh, USA
Comment by Chuck Beatty — April 7, 2008 @ 5:44 am
[...] GlossLip Similar Posts Scientology Attacks [...]
Pingback by Wikileaks.org Tells Church Of Scientology To Get Bent | It's Over Nine Thousand — April 7, 2008 @ 6:18 am
Incredilble and about time. No longer can they fleece their flock. This whole copyright thing made no sense to me from the get go. Who in their right mind would go take this information and decide oh wait what if I use this to start up my own religion and compete with the CoS for custo…I mean parishoners. The whole process of indoctrination and isolation keeps people crossing the bridge for the ever promised next OT level which will reveal all. Either that or ones disbelief that I can’t have done this all for nothing, there must be more right? Nuh huh just gets more unbelievable. I read part of OT 8 and I could not even imagine people doing it and paying for the priviledge. Talk about alternate reality. People have the freedom to practice their belief but they should at least know the basic theology before they get really into it. Thanks Dawn for another gem.
Comment by Mitsu Too — April 7, 2008 @ 6:27 am
Jesus christ, it’s like the Cult of $cientology enjoys being raped by the internet.
Comment by Anon4567 — April 7, 2008 @ 7:45 am
#17: Don’t forget that the Church of Scientology’s “Freedom of Religion” only covers *them*. Want to practice outside the Church? Well, you’re infringing on copyrights, so you shouldn’t be allowed to practice.
There was even a video of a man in Italy who was afraid because in the CoS list of “crimes” he read from, practicing outside the Church is pretty high up there.
Every single person who is having trouble writing in to their representatives (always getting back “but Freedom of Religion…” responses) should find information to back them up in pointing out that no, the last thing the CoS cares about is Freedom of Religion except when it’s useful to their financial interests. FoR doesn’t just cover their right to belief and to practice those beliefs, it also means all those others Scientologists get to practice without being harassed by the Church, and allowed full use of their religious documents.
Comment by Anonythingy — April 7, 2008 @ 9:50 am
One legal significance of these documents is that for a long time RTC via its attorney Helena Kobrin (Google her) claimed not just copyright but Religious Trade Secret status(!) for these materials. This would have excluded them even from being quoted in a critical discussion. That claim was struck down by some rulings in the 90s, including Judge Kane in Church of Scientology International versus Wollersheim, Penny et al., 1996: “the plaintiff has not shown by a preponderance of the evidence that the materials in issue are secret or within the definition of trade secrets under Colorado law.”
Comment by Martin Poulter — April 7, 2008 @ 10:00 am
OOOKKK?
I’m now convinced the top execs of scientology are anons, how else do you explain trying to SUE THE INTERNET AFTER SO MANY FAILURES??
Just keep going, you are doing such wonderful work for us :).
Comment by momixfire — April 7, 2008 @ 10:01 am
Great job Dawn!
Did you see cover of O?
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Comment by Angelfood — April 7, 2008 @ 10:55 am
Wow, Chuck. Awesome thoughts and info. Since L. Ron Hubbubb is said to have started his religion to get rich quick, it makes sense that you would divide the information into different levels, and then to keep those levels completely secret (until whatever century you are allowed to be privy to them) to make it necessary to buy the info. If the info was revealed, there would be no need to purchase it. I guess that’s why you sign contracts for eternity…there’s no rush to get to the secret stuff after all!
That also explains why the Scientology celebs are constantly making statements and giving speeches at the seminars about sticking with it and not giving up, and that the next big OT reveal/achievement is just around the corner for everyone, even if it doesn’t seem like it. If the levels of learning are purposely slowly paced, it must be excruciatingly boring and disheartening to not be able to move on to the next level if you’re ready (but not famous enough to rank moving forward quickly).
Comment by Capcom — April 7, 2008 @ 12:56 pm
Just what is Terryeo’s major malfunction? How can he (she?) not see that no other entity claiming to be a “church” protects so many “trade secrets” so that it can sell them? How can he overlook the huge contradiction of claiming to hold the key to saving the world yet charging people large sums of money for that secret? If your religion has so much to offer humanity, Terryeo, why charge people for it? Why not just go out there and share this information, free of charge, with the world?
Comment by Narcissus — April 7, 2008 @ 1:08 pm
Terryeo’s major malfunction is that they have been duped, and are now trapped.
They don’t want to wake up because they have devoted so much time. They don’t want this to be true, they want the reality they were sold to be.
They are afraid, both that these are indeed truths, and that someone within the organization will realize they have doubts. Because that is what gets someone into serious trouble within the ‘church’.
Terryeo: We have had our fun with you and your crazytalk…but we are ready for you to join us on the outside. We are willing to welcome you back into the real world. We are ready to share with you all of the knowlege that the church has denied and charged you for, and willing to share laughs with you when you see it for what it is.
Operation Re-Connect is here for people just like you. You don’t have to be afraid anymore. Just wanted you to know.
Comment by Anon1376 — April 7, 2008 @ 1:26 pm
This is just great…just great I tell you…you guys are mean…the Co$ was just about to buy zimbabwe but now they’ll lose all this money…damn
Comment by MrChillyAnon — April 7, 2008 @ 1:26 pm
I just tried to log onto wikileaks.org. No response. Maybe it’s just “maintenance”. Maybe they’re loading those thousands of new Co$ docs. Maybe the $cienos are mounting their own DNS attack on wikileaks. Maybe I’ve had too much coffee. Just a thought.
Comment by Artoo45 — April 7, 2008 @ 1:46 pm
Wikileaks.org is back, was just server hiccups (not Scientology OT powers, hehehe)
Comment by Maxwell Smart — April 7, 2008 @ 2:14 pm
Terryeo’s Wikipedia user history (before he was banned from Wikipedia for causing trouble on the Scientology articles there) will also give you a hint at Terryeo’s major malfunction.
Comment by Modemac — April 7, 2008 @ 4:25 pm
Scientology should take its cues from real religions like Christianity, and do what the First Council of Nicaea did in earlier days of that religion. It sure worked for them, look how long they’ve been around.
I know every religion has to obey the laws, but some of them go beyond weird even when they are operating legally.
Have a vote, like maybe the US Congress votes for which parts of Scientology are acceptable and which ones aren’t, then throw the rest of it out. Scientology can be free to practice their religion because it will be sort of like being “USDA” approved, only for religions.
How dare they say their religion has to be studied in a certain order and refuse to release some of it until you’ve reached a certain “level”! It may not be illegal, but I say that it’s ridiculous and me and my internet friends personally deny them permission to do that. The internet is Serious Business.
I like the “free speech” part of the first amendment, but the religious freedom part should be reworked. We should only have “approved” religions allowed so weirdo alien cults can’t exist.
Yay Wikileaks for standing up for freedom of speech!
Comment by WikiJoy — April 7, 2008 @ 5:46 pm
These actions CoS takes against many and other sources of CoS info basically prove that what is in these materials is, in fact, true.
Oh Scientology, when will you learn?
Comment by 9 — April 7, 2008 @ 6:47 pm
We should only have “approved†religions allowed so weirdo alien cults can’t exist.
I sadly must disagree here, because at some point, you have to define every religion. Not only do some ancient ones not have a name, but how do you think the CoS ever managed to get its tax-exempt status? By harassing the head of the IRS until he caved-in. So laws had no use, really.
Beyond that, potential for serious abuse and persecution wouldn’t sit well in the future. Now, we can have maybe task forces or watchdog groups– that way, there’s no persecution, only a watchful eye and support for people who decide to leave. Also, to make sure no religion ends up with a stockpile of weapons(Koresh, CoS).
Comment by Dio Brando — April 7, 2008 @ 7:20 pm
P.S.: Miscavige must be loving having to admit that those docs are true. Suddenly, his greatest weapon, is also his greatest injury.
Comment by Dio Brando — April 7, 2008 @ 7:23 pm
Thank you, Scientology, for proving you are as nuts as people say you are.
Now could the mainstream news media *please* cover this story?
Comment by DMS — April 7, 2008 @ 8:45 pm
…hmmm… anyone else feeling a little under the weather since reading OT3???
Terryeo?? You’ll be a hero if you do the right thing!! Keep that in mind. You come out and tell the truth (good or bad) and we’ll back your right to do so!!
Comment by Thomas — April 7, 2008 @ 8:45 pm
to Dio Brando — April 7, 2008 @ 7:23 pm
We can’t persecute people when they believe in stupid stuff?
Maybe we could just have a vote on the internet. Democracy, majority rule! And it could even be anonymous (like to you don’t have to register - “Anonymous”). have one of those MSNBC polls or something with the question Is this a weird religion or not?. If a majority of people on the internet think it’s stupid, — *poof* — close it down!!
It’s not illegal to keep some of your religious texts secret, but if a majority of internet voters think the idea is stupid then it shouldn’t be allowed!
We can pool together internet testimony of crimes they committed from former members. We wouldn’t even need to give take it to court. Everybody knows they’re guilty because it was repeated on the internet so many times, and ex-members would know, they were there. Why should they have to prove it?
We could even do it for conspiracy theories & stuff like that. If you believe 9/11 was an inside job, if you believe in UFOs or that Lee Harvey Oswald didn’t act alone, you go in the “Scilon” category too.
Off with their heads might be a little too severe, but we could deny them driver’s licenses, or the right to vote. We could block their IP addresses so anyone that wasn’t in an “approved” category can’t vote in future contests.
The majority says your religion is ridiculous, you lose!
Yay for the FIRST AMENDMENT!
Comment by WikiJoy — April 7, 2008 @ 11:45 pm
Er, I really don’t think that’s what the first amendment is about. Didn’t the founding fathers of America leave Britain for the New World so that they could practice their various flavors of Christianity in peace, and so that they’d live in a country where the church doesn’t rule the government? Religious freedom, separation of church and state, all that good stuff. As in, believe whatever the hell you want, but it’ll never override civil law and justice? Man. Read your freaking constitution already.
Yes, Scientology is silly; often, it verges on hazardous. If a Scientologist wants to believe that their mother tried to abort them numerous times during gestation, and that they are capable of being traumatized by spoken phrases while unconscious, then they may do so. However, when the heads of their organization deprive employees and parishioners of pay, food, and an adequate living space - despite all the money they’ve paid into the system - then I have a problem with it. Members of the CoS are being deprived of basic human rights, and I won’t tolerate that from any organization, religious or no.
Comment by abraxis — April 8, 2008 @ 12:48 am
Already downloaded a copy myself. I suggest everyone here do the same and pass it on to their friends to give them a heads up as to just how crazy this cult is.
Comment by Lexx-2 — April 8, 2008 @ 2:44 am
We can’t persecute people when they believe in stupid stuff?
“Stupid” is subject to perception. Some of the dumbest acts in history have given way to some of the most brilliant moments– look at the current presidential candidates. All three(haha, ron paul) stand for some level of change away from the religious right that swarmed and swiftboated Bush into office for two terms.
I suggest reading(or re-reading) 1984, and understanding what total government control means. Banning anything mainstream is a foolish idea, since it’s almost impossible for any wording to remain unaffected by vernacular alterations and evolutions. This is why the U.S. Constitution still holds so well– a level of vague wording. Of course, it’s very much part of the reason why Christianity is made up of so many sects.
Maybe we could just have a vote on the internet. Democracy, majority rule! And it could even be anonymous (like to you don’t have to register - “Anonymousâ€). have one of those MSNBC polls or something with the question Is this a weird religion or not?. If a majority of people on the internet think it’s stupid, — *poof* — close it down!!
…and that’s the moment corruption strikes. To base it all upon the internet, is to suggest a single machine per person, with no proxies whatsoever. In other words, a virtually impossible situation.
What one culture sees as odd, another sees as normal. You can talk about how, say, female circumcision is appalling in Africa, but you become a hypocrite the instant you circumcise a boy. There is no difference in reasoning behind why. Circumcisions were offered up in the past as a way to combat promiscuity and masturbation. You can guess what female circumcision is done for. =P
It’s not illegal to keep some of your religious texts secret, but if a majority of internet voters think the idea is stupid then it shouldn’t be allowed!
Now, on to individuality. Reality is as one perceives it. I find homosexuality to be nothing odd– a natural balance and genetic occurrence to cut down on breeding numbers for humans, and with some animals, a way of bonding, trust, and practice before procreating with females(bison do this, as I recall). However, quite a large number of people find this to be offensive and shameful.
The easiest way to a majority is through baby factory method. Why do you think many religions forbid masturbation, or sex for non-procreational purposes? At least some of it is in order to make certain that numbers grow, traditions pass.
If you can’t see what I’m getting at, it’s that the majority is not always the brightest(heyas, America!). That doesn’t mean that the majority is always wrong, either. But there is a problem when the majority is either uninformed, or misinformed. That’s why people are risking their lives to post these OT documents. It’s to inform the people who wish to know more, without getting into danger.
We could even do it for conspiracy theories & stuff like that. If you believe 9/11 was an inside job, if you believe in UFOs or that Lee Harvey Oswald didn’t act alone, you go in the “Scilon†category too.
Theories are always theories. However, there are indeed times when conspiracy theories are true– MK Ultra was a perfect example of what the government used to do. Hell, Scientol’s Operation Freakout was exactly that– stealing Paulette Cooper’s fingerprint-covered paper, and mailing bomb threats on them to people. An absolute conspiracy.
Off with their heads might be a little too severe, but we could deny them driver’s licenses, or the right to vote. We could block their IP addresses so anyone that wasn’t in an “approved†category can’t vote in future contests.
The majority says your religion is ridiculous, you lose!
Yay for the FIRST AMENDMENT!
I’m hoping you’re simply misinformed, or else you reek of an OSA satire attempt.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Now, it should be noted that exercise != freedom to do and act as you wish. You may practice what you want, and may think whatever you want. You may NOT, however, freely subject others to it, as that intrudes upon their freedoms, as well.
This means a Scientologist can believe ANYTHING they want. However, even if scripture says it, they CANNOT shoot anyone in the head with two rounds from a .45 caliber revolver. Yes, a cult is allowed under US law, to exist. But if the cult does anything to harm or destroy the lives of others, it becomes a crime. You cannot stone someone to death just for not being a Christian, for example.
As such, this entire battle against the CoS is NOT to shatter the religion, or force people to leave their beliefs behind. It is to bring the acts of Scientology to a respectable level, which makes it no more special than any other religion. It is against the leaders of the CoS, who abuse power, and abuse people. The instant the abuses stop and a peaceful way begins to be built, the instant this all comes to an end.
As a psychologist myself, I do see a level of value in the basics of Scientology. But as someone who abhors the erasure of individuality and the institution of abuse and harassment, I cannot allow what David Miscavige orders to be carried out upon the world. I personally don’t care what happens to the pharmaceutical companies. I don’t value medication except as a management assistant.
I am very much what Miscavige doesn’t want to believe exists– someone they have no hope of applying the “nazi science” sticker to. So what DOES the CoS say about analytical psychology, anyways? I’m interested in hearing anyone say anything negative about therapy that doesn’t necessarily require medication.
Comment by Dio Brando — April 8, 2008 @ 3:23 am
If there were such flagrant abuses, the victims should have reported the crimes and allowed for proper investigation and fair justice.
Individual Scientologists are experiencing a lot of religious hate and discrimination as a result of these unsubstantiated accusations, and apparently many don’t care that it boils down to unproven rumors spread broadly on the internet.
Comment by Matt — April 8, 2008 @ 6:34 am
Thanks Dio Brando. I always like reading your posts. Sort of a measured take a deep breath analytical well though out post. In all the excitement of the “hive” mind it’s always good to pause and take a second look. One must be carful not to get swept away with the tide. Anonymous are not vigilantes despite the CoS attempts to paint them as such. It’s about restoring balance and stop the abuses of the CoS. As Tom Cruise would say…Period.
Comment by Mitsu Too — April 8, 2008 @ 6:43 am
@Matt, It is truly unfortunate that some Scientologists feel they are experiencing “a lot of religious hate and discrimination as a result of these unsubstantiated accusations”. I wonder if any of them have actually heard what Anonymous has said, over and over and over? The rank and file Scientologists and their beliefs are not the issue, never have been. Say it with me people: Believe whatever you want, belong to whatever religion floats your boat, we could not care less. BUT, when the leaders of the religion are behaving badly and hurting others, we have a problem. That’s where Anonymous and ex-Scientologists and other critics start getting their knickers in a twist. And the “rumors” are NOT “unproved.” You see, first hand testimony, and some of it is SWORN testimony, actually counts as proof. If you talked to 50 people and they all said that your new haircut was flattering, would you believe that your new haircut was flattering? Just an example of how it might work, that after we hear from 50 people that Miscavige beats his “employees”, we begin to believe that he does indeed do that. And when we hear person after person after person, say that a family member refuses to speak to them, we believe that disconnection is really real. Actually, I have my own story: The Office of Special Affairs told me I couldn’t talk to my brother because he had been declared. My brother worked for the Sea Org for 35 years and was highly placed and a very valuable SO member. Anyway, I told OSA to get bent. Now I’m happily declared too. Thanks OSA. I’ve never been happier. I’m a lot poorer, but oh well.
Comment by anonymous — April 8, 2008 @ 10:17 am
anonymous — April 8, 2008 @ 10:17 am
Guilt and innocence is not decided by internet vote of a mob of people some of whom don’t understand the concept of “innocent until proven guilty”.
“Testimony” and “proof” are completely different things. Some people lie and some people are mistaken, and even honest people can have different opinions of the same “facts”. Justice is NOT “whoever makes the most convincing argument on the internet wins”. It wouldn’t matter how many people believe it. The world is not flat.
One example of false testimony is Bob Minton. He lied under oath against the church as an investment scam to try to bilk the church of millions of dollars. These facts are in court documents, and can be found if you want to read them. However, at least read this article with highlights.
—–
http://www.sptimes.com/2002/04/20/TampaBay/Church_s_leading_foes.shtml
(here’s an excerpt)
“Robert Minton, one of the most vocal critics of Scientology, testified that he just had enough of the lies and under the advice of his attorney wanted to recant his false statements.”
—–
Bob Minton got some of his (mis)information against the church from Stacy Brooks, an excommunicated former member who was also proven in court to have lied under oath. She was paid to testify against the church, so the more “testimony” she could provide the longer she kept her job. Turns out she was proven to be lying too.
Many of Stacy’s disproven lies are the ones being repeated on the internet as “proof” to justify this public lynching of a church. They’ve already been proven false IN COURT but they still get repeated on the internet as fact.
You and your brother were kicked out of the church. Sucks to be you!
According to your story, you didn’t witness any crime and weren’t the victim of a crime either. You just say it’s true because “50 people on the internet” said it. You are mad at the church so you jump on the band wagon.
It sounds like you have a score to settle. But kicking you out of the church is not a crime, even if you don’t like it.
Comment by Pat — April 8, 2008 @ 3:38 pm
You can get people to admit to anything, if you torment them enough. Even under oath.
Isn’t that what Fair Game (or whatever you call it these days since calling it Fair Game is “bad PR”) is all about–pressuring and harassing your critics until they do what you want them to, be it back down, remain silent, or otherwise recant?
If the “church”’s standards were the norm, certain ‘Families’ of import/exporters would never have been dragged before the courts either.
Given the choice between blindly buying into the line of “there are no improprieties” and the dozens of people who say “there are improprieties”–and then factoring in the church’s history and declared policies, and then watching the videos of bullbaiting, and THEN watching how the ‘innocent’ church is behaving now in response to peaceful protests….
Yeah, Pat, I’ve gotta call bullshit. Because that’s what you’re slinging onto the plate here.
Comment by Anonymous — April 8, 2008 @ 4:29 pm
the cult should relaise by now that wikileaks exists to leak documents the public needs to see. Why should wiki listen to them? religon should be free. also, by trying to twist the arm of this type of site will only piss them off and be counterproductive. This has to be mindboggling to the cult. For the first time someone has said no and fuck off and the cult do a thing about it. Thank you first amendment and internet deceny act, which states an internet provider is not liable for anything posted by a second party.
Comment by Devin — April 8, 2008 @ 5:40 pm
the cult should relaise by now that wikileaks exists to leak documents the public needs to see.
All they see is OUR PROFITS THEY DROPS.
One must be carful not to get swept away with the tide. Anonymous are not vigilantes despite the CoS attempts to paint them as such. It’s about restoring balance and stop the abuses of the CoS.
Aye, giving in to the desire to “ban all cults” is playing right into their mittens– they want to paint Anon and anyone else battling the CoS as stifle-happy terrorists.
THEY are supposed to be the stifle-happy terrorists, not us.
Comment by Dio Brando — April 8, 2008 @ 9:18 pm
@Comment by Anonymous — April 8, 2008 @ 4:29 pm
“You can get people to admit to anything, if you torment them enough. Even under oath.”
Torment might persuade a person to lie under oath. Money is another factor one should consider. If you had done your homework you would know which of those was thoroughly documented and proven and which was not. I have seen the ‘evidence’ you cite and the THE REST OF IT TOO, even the parts that contradict your side of the story. I have even read the court transcripts to verify the sptimes article, because I’m a skeptic and like to see everything for myself. http://www.sptimes.com/2002/04/20/TampaBay/Church_s_leading_foes.shtml
I personally think it’s possible Minton was duped by the ex-churchies, and may have originally thought he was “saving” people too (as a bonus, along with a handsome monetary payoff thought to be guaranteed). Then when it came to having to prove the “evil cult with oppressive tactics” theory *in court*, it wasn’t so easy. They lied and they were caught.
Some “Scientologists” behave stupidly sometimes, as do some “Anonymous”. Let’s not exaggerate acts of stupidity into federal crimes when they aren’t. It would take a lot more than the ridiculous actions you call evidence of “torment” to persuade Minton, an international investor with lots of experience playing hardball with the big dogs, to lie under oath and give up his hope of an $8 million pay off!
It used to be the #1 attack against the church and now this LMT case rarely comes up within your ranks anymore. It has been thoroughly discredited for anyone who cares to be informed, with REAL documentation. Your group is moving on to the next propaganda slogan. (Which I predict will be discredited pretty quickly too.)
Comment by Mando — April 9, 2008 @ 5:07 am
It was said before, and I’ll say it again. anonymous doesn’t give a shit about any of the drama between LMT and scientology. Nobody cares what Minton did/didn’t do. In fact, members of the LMT were specifically told NOT to show up at the Clearwater protests because of the drama they would cause.
Now that that’s out of the way, Lisa McPherson does come up. Scientologists removed her from medical care and held her for 17 days. She died. Had they left her in the hospital she could have recieved proper medical care that you guys didn’t allow her.
All the drama of the LMT etc. though, nobody gives a damn. It doesn’t negate the fact that scientologists removed someone from medical care and they died.
Comment by David — April 9, 2008 @ 8:28 am
^^This.
Also, Investor hardball, while it can get a bit dirty at times, is usually totally legal. Fair Game tactics are not. When someone is worried about the safety of their family and then does a complete flip on their position, I think its not a mental leap to guess why he decided to change tunes.
That’s just it in a nutshell, really: when dealing with small numbers of critics, its easy to stifle and suppress them, and Fair Game works as intended. When dealing with the internet and THOUSANDS of critics, it sort of breaks down.
A lot of the fair game policy can be done by legal–if very ethically/morally questionable–means. Looking at a single incident is easy to dismiss “oh, it was just one person acting inappropriately.”
Multiple incidents in the same vein can and do add up and define a pattern of behavior. This pattern has been observed ALL OVER THE WORLD in regards to scientologist reactions to protesters/critics. It would seem to be more of a POLICY than a behavioral aberration. And hey, look at that–a policy was laid out that covers exactly this sort of behavior by LRH.
It may not be given the name “Fair Game” anymore, but a name change is not a behavior change. You’d have to be brainwashed and highly susceptible to suggestion to believe that.
Comment by Anonymous — April 9, 2008 @ 10:14 am
Q: If illegal ‘fair game’ actions were so common all these years then why didn’t any of those 9,000 people call the cops and have them arrested?
A: It’s a lie!
Comment by Amerigo — April 9, 2008 @ 6:50 pm
The fair game lie was given life by LMT people, like Prince, Brooks, Minton, Tory.
They’ve been proven in court to be liars and discredited but you are still spreading their rumors.
Comment by Anton — April 9, 2008 @ 6:55 pm
Actually, there have been numerous complaints and reports filed to the respective police departments by anons. So far, harassment has been the extent of things outside of a few isolated examples. The anon in LA who was falsely charged with making criminal threats and who had his cat poisoned, for example.
Tom Gorman had his tires slashed.
The webmaster of enturbulation had a video camera set up and pointed at his home.
The church gets off on causing terror. They have PC Freakout to display how “bad” they can be, and appear to rely on that and a few menacing displays to stifle criticism.
That sort of thing doesn’t work anymore. Anon has called their bluff. It appears that since they lack the resources to attack thousands, they’re attempting a “heads on pikes” strategy to cow anonymous. But its funny how those examples turn instead into rallying cries.
I’m going to descend into a bit of Godwin here, but just because it works as a comparison: Just because a former Nazi camp guard is old and can’t conduct genocide anymore, doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be pursued and tried for his transgressions.
Comment by Anonymous — April 9, 2008 @ 8:39 pm
Needless to remind that the OT materials state that the media is often criticizing Scientology in a bad way; thus making any media light bad, unless of course we are talking about how they’re so “swell” and “courageous” to fight pharmaceutical companies that produce anti-psychotics or something similar.
Comment by 9 — April 9, 2008 @ 8:55 pm
Terryeo, I realize this is old but…
If an organization is a business, that’s where copyright comes in, to protect their product against copies which will detract from it’s market value, or to prevent other organizations from taking a peice of their works profit.
It doesn stop people from developing the exact same product on their own (think of all the types of electric razors you can get, Coke to Pepsi to no name cola or something) Thats where trademark and brands come in.
In Canada at least, and many other countries, copyright doesn’t apply when information is being given freely. That’s why I can lend my friend a movie or book, why libraries don’t have to pay out to each individual copyright holder (because they are lending you the books, giving them in trust, not charging you for them individually.) So if I wrote a book, and someone spread it around, sure I’d be miffed, but it’s not copywrite infrindgement if they are not making any money off it.
However keep in mind, this applies to BUISNESSES and it to protect their PROFITS.
Scientology is allegedly a RELIGION and is supposed to be a NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATION. And therefore should not be privilage to claim copywrite. It has no competitors, it has no stock, profit or shareholders to protect. People are supposed to spread the word of a religion, the only time a religion should WANT to stay secret is when it is, a cult, and their teachings are untrue or harmful to society.
So Scientology, which one is it? Either you’re a business and need to drop your tax exepmt, admit to being a business and then bitch about copywrite. (Which by the by is something that will only last for the next what? 20 years anyway.)
Or you need to STFU and act like a Religion alread
Or keep doing what you’re doing and keep telling the world you are and have always been a Culty McCult cult.
Comment by LanTien — April 9, 2008 @ 9:35 pm
Anonymous loves to state, regurgitate, and pound certain small drums. One is sometimes stated “religion is free!” — To be completely base, religion is but a thought in the head of man. There is no physical object that is in and unto itself, a religion. A text, a statue, a symbol, these are but representations of an idea. Where does the idea reside? Well, it resides in the head (or mind if you wish to pick nits). So yes, religion is always free because at least on Earth here, you get to think any thought you want and no one can do a thing about it. Religion, anti-religion or anything you want, hey? When it comes to ideas, no one actually owns any idea because we can all think whatever we choose. When it comes to published texts, songs, books, films, etc. then another force comes into play. The idea is not copyrighted, the symbols that represent the idea is copyrighted. But you’ll find Scientology texts, at least the basic ones, in many public libraries. Why? because both individuals and the Church have made a project of donating such basic texts.
Comment by Terryeo [untrademarked] — April 9, 2008 @ 10:02 pm
So I can walk into any scientology org (ok, I’ll spot you: any advanced org) and buy a copy of OT 5 and walk out with it, right?
Didn’t think so.
I can see trademarking the double-cross symbol, maybe that double triangle/S thingie, and the various group names (sea org, etc). A trademark protects symbols and catchphrases/slogans.
Copyright protects media and information from being duplicated and resold or distributed. In other words, it restricts the free flow of information. Which is fine for trade secrets and fiction. Even nonfiction to an extent–the words as laid out. The knowledge in the book should be freely transmissible, however. ESPECIALLY if it pertains to the greater good and the betterment of man.
If scientology is correct, then the words should be ringing from door to door, blazing across the internet. The only price should be for the paper and ink; and even that can be subsidized by other areas.
How much does a set of Basics cost again? And thats just the “Basics.” How many thousands of dollars? I know the dollar is weak at the moment, but c’mon…what are you printing them on, gold leaf?
Yes I know audio lectures are included in that too. CDs are dirt cheap though.
And seriously, several thousand bucks for an e-meter? Something that costs maybe 50-75 bucks a pop to make (and thats spotting you for seriously high-end components)?
Plus the obscene cost for auditing. The auditor gets a fraction of that cost, and had to pay for his own training, AND has to buy at least 2 emeters, so don’t roll out the “highly trained specialist expense” line.
Basically, the CoS has every hallmark of a MLM scheme. It just has appropriated some religious trappings (mostly from christianity) and gets above-normal tax exemption for it.
Seriously–if I went to a jewish or christian church and didn’t pay a dime, I’d still get the full range of support and salvation. If I went to a Scientology church and didn’t pay a dime, I’d get asked to sign a billion year contract and work 80 hours a week, or to leave.
A religion that places such a high emphasis on money doesn’t exactly come across as interested in the general public.
I’m being absolutely blunt here: Scientology is fading. Contrary to DM’s bluster, it is NOT the fastest growing religion on the planet. There are more Jedi than scientologists in Britain–and there are only a few thousand people claiming Jedi status. Where is saint hill again?
If you want to pursue your goal of clearing the planet, you need to make the religion accessible for the common man. The common man cannot afford tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars for “Services.” And with how secretive, insular, and false-ringing your organization sounds to the public at the moment…he wouldn’t want to, to begin with.
You cannot save the CoS with youtube ads and an (pretty crappy) attempt at a PR makeover. You need to institute real change and promote openness.
Yeah yeah, I know, the wog’s getting preachy about your religion. But don’t write this off, please–this is an honest, outside view. I’ve read the scientology website front to back for the most part. I’ve even read parts of dianetics (LRH couldn’t write coherently for crap, but thats neither here nor there). I even make a conscious effort to see things from your perspective.
Yes, the protests are intimidating. Yes, the accusations seem incredible, based on what you’ve been told. I get that.
But there’s a reason that we’re out there. And its not to deny you your faith. Its the poor choices its leadership have made. When the catholic church tried to cover up the depravities of some of its clergy, people protested. They weren’t against the faith. They were against those who led it because of the breach of trust and law. This situation is no different, aside from the specific circumstance.
Join the mainstream. Open your doors. Talk to the protesters. The “confront and shatter suppression” courses–are they being followed? We’ve had two utterly peaceful protests. We’re not terrorists or violent mobs. Talk to us, LISTEN to our claims. Have some cake!
Or just keep doing what you’re doing. DM is running the mighty ship SCN aground…if you don’t believe me, do a headcount, and compare the number of graduates from flag today with the number 10 years ago.
Comment by Anonymous — April 10, 2008 @ 12:20 am
[...]at least on Earth here, you get to think any thought you want and no one can do a thing about it.
And yet, you(more specifically, your religion) wants to prevent people from thinking as they wish. Or are you personally exempt from doing Audits?
When it comes to ideas, no one actually owns any idea because we can all think whatever we choose.
We own our own thoughts. And no one else has the right to override that entirely.
The idea is not copyrighted, the symbols that represent the idea is copyrighted.
Not an idea. A plot. A story. The vessel.
But you’ll find Scientology texts, at least the basic ones, in many public libraries.
Why only the basic ones? Why is all of the knowledge not free? Why hide so much? What do you feel you need to hide, eh? What are you hiding? Why is so much of the Church hidden from view? Why is no one allowed to practice all LRH tech without being in Scientology?
Comment by Dio Brando — April 10, 2008 @ 12:58 am
From #51: “The fair game lie was given life by LMT people, like Prince, Brooks, Minton, Tory.
They’ve been proven in court to be liars and discredited but you are still spreading their rumors.”
Actually, the policies of the Church that people refer to as “Fair Game” have been proven or at least backed up with a decent amount of circumstancial evidence. Whether or not Scientology refers to those actions as “Fair Game” is a different story but lets look at what’s going on.
Scientologist filed a false police report against Sean saying he threatened to kill him. Video evidence proves that claim was false.
Tommy Gorman has had his tires slashed and a white van follow him and park outside his house. There’s video proof of that.
Scientology lawyers are sending letters to the parents of adult protesters in an attempt to defame/slander the protester to their own parents. I understand “warning” (that’s what you guys are calling it) the parents of minors, but the CoS has no right violating the privacy of adults.
There are videos and pictures of PI’s hired by the CoS sitting outside of people’s houses.
The fake bomb threat that scientology claims anonymous released (and anonymous contends scientology did to themselves) has a few pieces of interesting circumstancial evidence to help support anonymous’s claims. First, on the DVD sent to protesters families the video appears in higher resolution then those ripped from YouTube (where the video was posted) this couldn’t happen without access to the original. Also, The Commlink website ( http://thecommline.com ) uses the exact same image in the header as found in the video meaning scientology had that picture on file prior to the “threat” being released. Is it enough to get a court conviction? Probably not, but backed up with previous events like Op. Freakout and claiming the BBC (the British Government run TV station) sent scientology bomb threats it’s enough to get people thinking.
So Anonymous are not reciting a rumor based on anything the LMT might have said. We are backing up our claims with proof, and evidence of critics being harassed.
Also, it’s been proven that the CoS has lied to people before too. So lets not go down the road of 1 lie means you always lie. I told my mom I didn’t eat the cookies when I was 6 (I totally did) that doesn’t mean I lie in every aspect of my life.
PS: If people never change and always act the same (liars always lie as you stated), those criminals you let into Scientology via Crimonon & Narconon are totally going to steal all your stuff and use it to buy drugs.
Comment by David — April 10, 2008 @ 10:16 am
One more thing to add to further the point that “Fair Game” is not in fact a rumor. Here’s a court case where the CoS argued that it should be allowable as part of their “religion”
http://www.lermanet2.com/reference/wollersheim.htm
Ya, ya, I know scientologists will say Lermanet is a bunch of lies so Scientologists, feel free to go look up the public records on this one:
LARRY WOLLERSHEIM, Plaintiff and Respondent, v. CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY OF
CALIFORNIA, Defendant and Appellant
No. B023193
Court of Appeals of California, Second Appellate District, Division Seven
212 Cal.App.3d 872, 260 Cal.Rptr. 331
212 Cal.App.3d at 877:
Also of note, these arguments of “Fair Game” being a religious tenet were made long AFTER the CoS supposedly repealed the practice. (In fact they only stopped calling it Fair Game)
So tell me scientologists, how exactly is “Fair Game” a myth & rumor when your own lawyers argued that it is a religious tenet?
Comment by David — April 10, 2008 @ 10:41 am
Let’s put this succinctly: Scientologists’ claims that Fair Game is a myth or lie are just as ridiculous as their claims that the Xenu story is a lie or has no place in the faith.
There is overwhelming evidence of Fair Game, including a memo by LRH and numerous documented incidents of Fair Game in practice.
Anton @ 51, you’re either a liar or completely ignorant of the facts. Get informed.
Comment by Run-DMS — April 10, 2008 @ 10:57 am
I’m somewhat amused by the psychiatrists and Big Pharma employees whom post here, beating their gums, spreading rumor, and objecting to freedom of religion. If it weren’t Scientology it would be some other religion, or any movement that offers some glimmer of hope toward a betterment of mankind. My glass is half full. It is a lovely day with light breeze and scattered clouds, with fresh air and bountiful sunshine. We’ve a good planet here and a free internet. But if enough people really, really insist on violating copyright law, then lawmakers will be forced to make more laws about internet use. We already have recorded IPs, in extreme cases the FBI can demand all of an internet site’s records. Please don’t make the internet less free by continually violating copyright law.
Comment by Terryeo [TM] — April 10, 2008 @ 4:44 pm
No last minute upstats for you TO. L Ron Hubbard was a theif and David Miscaviage is squirreling the tech.
Comment by David — April 10, 2008 @ 4:59 pm
Now that it’s after 5pm (TO likes to get the last comment before 5pm eastern 2pm pacific) so that s/he’s upstat for the week. Now to tear Terreyeo apart.
“I’m somewhat amused by the psychiatrists and Big Pharma employees whom post here, beating their gums, spreading rumor, and objecting to freedom of religion.”
Scientology Lawyers are here? After all I’ve already given you links proving that the lawyers you use to harass protesters (Latham & Watkins) have had a much bigger hand in supporting psych & big pharma then any member of anonymous. Do I need to do that again? And how does it make you feel knowing your own lawyers are working against you?
“But if enough people really, really insist on violating copyright law, then lawmakers will be forced to make more laws about internet use. We already have recorded IPs, in extreme cases the FBI can demand all of an internet site’s records. Please don’t make the internet less free by continually violating copyright law.”
You neglect to mention that Wikileaks is not located in the US and thus US Law and US law enforcement (the FBI et al) have zero control over them. Wikileaks isn’t violating copyright by hosting documents because their servers aren’t anywhere that scientology copyrights matter.
Try again TO.
Comment by David — April 10, 2008 @ 5:07 pm
PLEASE IGNORE THE TROLL TERRYEO
Terryeo is a ranking Scientologist who has trolled the boards trying to cover for his cult for years. There are actually webpages about him. If you post against Scientology then you MUST, in his words, be misinformed, confused, a drug rep or a psychologist. Scientology is a cult and a criminal one at that, not its followers mind you but the leadership, RTC, OSA and the other misc garbage. If people want to believe that they are having a bad time in life because of possession by 75 million year old dead alien sould then so be it but the criminal activitis of the leadership will no longer be tolerated.
Further reading on Terryeo can be found at:
http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Terryeo
Comment by Centurian 10 — April 11, 2008 @ 11:01 am
We already have recorded IPs, in extreme cases the FBI can demand all of an internet site’s records.
In b4 “seven mothafuckin’ proxies” or the fact that the FBI won’t demand the records on a whim.
Unless I lost my field guide and now they go after protesters of -anything-.
Comment by Dio Brando — April 12, 2008 @ 11:05 pm
Terryeo, or Terry E. Olsen, is what banned from Wikipedia for continual disruptive editing and violation of policies.
That religious scriptures have defensible copyrights is quite contentious as the act of a government defending such copyrights de facto violates the First Amendment. Likewise for “religious trademarks”, and even more so.
Religious trademark is an oxymoron.
Scientology is a business, not a religion.
Comment by Quentin — April 28, 2008 @ 10:38 pm