Was Scientology Founder L. Ron Hubbard Murdered?
Theories are floating that Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard was murdered as part of a hostile takeover of the Church of Scientology by current leader David Miscavige perhaps with the help of a high-level Scientologist named Norman Starkey. As is told by the author of one version of this theory, Starkey took over as executor of LRH’s estate in a vicious struggle for control of the wealthy, but failing Church.
This was 1986, the Church was spending millions of dollars battling the IRS, they had yet to claw their way out of the abyss of public ill-will created by Operation Snow White, when several members of the Church, including L. Ron Hubbard’s own wife, Sue, were indicted in 1979 and sent to prison for breaking into federal government offices and attempting to pervert and extort officials within the IRS and FBI.
Operation Snow White was the Church of Scientology’s name for a project during the 1970s to purge unfavorable records about Scientology and its founder L. Ron Hubbard. This project included a series of infiltrations and thefts from 136 government agencies, foreign embassies and consulates, as well as private organizations critical of Scientology, carried out by Church members; the single largest infiltration of the United States government in history[1] with up to 5,000 covert agents.[2] This was also the operation that exposed ‘Operation Freakout’, due to the fact that this was the case that brought the government into investigation on the Church.[2]
Under this program, Scientology operatives committed infiltration, wiretapping, and theft of documents in government offices, most notably those of the U.S. Internal Revenue Service. Eleven highly-placed Church executives, including Mary Sue Hubbard (wife of founder L. Ron Hubbard and second-in-command of the organization), pleaded guilty or were convicted in federal court of obstructing justice, burglary of government offices, and theft of documents and government property. The case was United States vs. Mary Sue Hubbard et al., 493 F. Supp. 209.
To put it bluntly, the Church was in crisis, and L. Ron Hubbard was old and in the way, no longer the revered and exalted spiritual leader he is often portrayed by the Church of Scientology propoganda machine. Think Chairman Mao, a mythic revolutionary figure who had long outlasted his usefulness.
The backdrop to Hubbard’s final days living in the dusty town of Creston, California under an assumed identity:
Pat and Annie Broeker, loyal friends of LRH, had essentially assigned themselves the task of looking after an ailing and increasingly senile Hubbard in his day-to-day functions. At the time, most considered the Broekers the heir apparent to take control of the Church of Scientology upon Hubbard’s death.
In his final days, Hubbard was on the run with the IRS looking for him, and in many cases, he and the Church were run out of several countries having worn out their welcome, which may explain Hubbard’s mythic wanderlust. Rather than being some sort of sea-faring Captain sailing the trade-winds and charting his course, Hubbard was a man on the run, who managed to keep one step ahead of the authorities with the help of funds extracted by the unwitting members who gladly continued to donate in hopes of crossing the bridge to total freedom.
In many ways, Hubbard was just smart enough to get himself into real trouble, but not in possession of enough mental faculties to do anything but run when confronted. An eccentric scholar of science fiction and pseudo-psychology, Hubbard, unlike his successor, David Miscavige, was not capable of navigating his own empire with the kind of ruthless, and unyielding leadership a secret and sinister business/religion seemed to require.
To be continued…
Miscavige’s role in Hubbard’s suspicious death.
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Read Robert Vaughn Young’s writings on Hubbard being killed.
http://www.xenu-directory.net/accounts/youngr19980902.html#HUBBARDS_DEATH
Comment by Desert Rain — April 8, 2008 @ 11:12 am
ive heard this theory before, extremely suspcious circumstances. also read about mary sue hubbard being forced to sign over all rights/trademarks of scientolgy to the church after being being threatened and intimidated by miscavige and a few trusted lackies for hours.
all the earmarks of a hostile takeover. not to de-demonize lron (because by all accounts, he was a goddamned monster) but it looks like hubbard found someone even more sinister and driven than he was…only he discovered it too late to avoid falling victim himself.
Comment by hrmmm... — April 8, 2008 @ 11:13 am
Kudos to Glosslip for opening this can of worms, lol!! You’ve done a very good job here but I don’t know how accurate this statement is in full:
“Pat and Annie Broeker, loyal friends of LRH, had essentially assigned themselves the task of looking after an ailing and increasingly senile Hubbard in his day-to-day functions. At the time, most considered the Broekers the heir apparent to take control of the Church of Scientology upon Hubbard’s death. ”
”
As I recall it, both the Broekers were Sea Org staff assigned to Hubbard years before, to whom he took a liking and to whom he entrusted his care with, who where both announced by Miscavige as his Loyal Officers of the technology in an event held on Hubbard birthday March 13, 1986, which was shown live by satellite across the world 2 months after Hubbard died.
As a result of the implications stated in that event, many expected # 1 Loyal Officer Pat Broeker to be running scientology, but due to the human qualities exhibited by both the Broekers, who obviously enjoyed their days with Hubbard when he was in their care, the militaristic Miscavige managed to boot them out shortly thereafter and take control of the church. I remember this event very well because the Broeker’s almost bordered on being down-home ‘wogs’ compared to the Sea Org personnel Miscavige wanted them to be. Both Broeker’s left, but Annie returned ( after divorcing Pat and going by the name Annie Tidman ).
The Broeker’s were the ones who Hubbard trusted with his own money, having them pay cash in different names for the place they lived and went, for the things they bought for him per his requests. All the planning of the corporate shenanaghans of the organization were going on during the time the Broeker’s were traveling around the world with Hubbard, helping him in his avoidance of the law, particulary the French gov’t where he’d been convicted of fraud in absentia. They settled in Creston when the man was getting too old to travel, and it was here that Miscavige began his scheme to take over the church and move the Broekers to the side lines, even having Hubbard sign a will shortly before his death- a will that excluded Pat Broeker as executor. By the time Broeker found out what Miscavige was up to, he was ‘quietly and without sorrow’ disposed of in the form of a settlement
( under the guise of inheritance, I believe, as he was levied for nonpayment of inheritance tax during the years he was a resident of San Luis Obispo Co before he left home in Whyoming) along with a gag agreement he has continued to honor.
The story of the Broeker’s as caretakers of Hubbard is an incomplete one but will certainly be one worthy of attention if it ever makes the internet.
The above is how I recall things and from the research I have done on this. I know nothing about Miscavige killing Hubbard other than it being a rumor commonly stated and portrayed as actually happening in movie called The Profit. The known and documented facts of Hubbard’s death are chilling enough but it will be good to know what happened in that 48 hour period before and after Hubbard’s death and what Dr Denk and David Miscavige had to do with it.
Keep up the good work!
Comment by Mary McConnell — April 8, 2008 @ 11:26 am
So is this the real story (true or not) behind the Church of Scientology blocking the movie, “The Profit”?
Also: What are YOUR crimes?
Comment by The Profit — April 8, 2008 @ 11:44 am
OH…MY…GOD. How dare you enturbulate the image and memory of the great man, Hubbard! He shed his outer shell for us, so that he could float up to the higher planes of TOTAL FREEDOM and wage war against renegade body-thetans who were too tough even for OT-8s.
AND BY THE WAY, WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THIS BLOG?
I KNOW I’M SPELLING “ENTURBULATE’ CORRECTLY, YET YOUR MAL-FUNCTIONING WOG/SP BLOG KEEPS FLAGGING IT WITH SPELL CHECK. WTH!!!
Comment by SCIENTOLOGIST — April 8, 2008 @ 11:50 am
However you cut it, the world is a far better place without this man.
Comment by On the Bridge — April 8, 2008 @ 11:58 am
Does the phrase, “dumber than dirt” ring a bell? Do you know human reaction to persistent anger?
Comment by Terryeo [TM] — April 8, 2008 @ 12:24 pm
I always thought L Ron Hubbard ran a general store, sold chicken feed, blinders and muzzles, then finally died from an attack of vicious germs.
is this bad info?
Comment by Klif — April 8, 2008 @ 12:29 pm
Is that a threat Terry O. Because that is the exact reaction I would expect from a Scientologist. In fact, that’s their one and only reaction to criticism.
What are you going to do exactly? Hmmm…please do tell, because the CoS may have made billions intimidating the world, but I and thousands like me are SICK OF IT. Either fix your f*cking religion and make it NOT evil, or go away.
What, did you think you were the only person who could express anger? I am ONE person you don’t want to anger. Trust me on that one.
Comment by D — April 8, 2008 @ 12:32 pm
May want to be careful, OSA may try to use that last statement in conjunction with some lame attempt to frame you as a cyber-bigot or try a mini-Paulette Cooper.
Comment by maxwell smart — April 8, 2008 @ 1:05 pm
Oh, it’s out in the open now. They are currently doing a background search on me. It won’t be long until the goons show up on my doorstep.
Comment by D — April 8, 2008 @ 1:08 pm
Eeek. Well… document, document, document.
Tell your friends and family that people may start calling for you, arm them with pre-warning.
The day that Scientology management gets slapped by Justice can not come soon enough.
Comment by Maxwell Smart — April 8, 2008 @ 1:20 pm
I know that some members of media didn’t think they harassed Theresa Duncan and Jeremy Blake but I think they they may have…
Comment by maxwell smart — April 8, 2008 @ 1:38 pm
Elron done in by the evil, tiny monster he created? How deliciously sinister and cosmically warranted if somewhat dubious.
Comment by Artoo45 — April 8, 2008 @ 1:40 pm
L. Ron mysteriously dies in ‘86.
“Never Gonna Give You Up” released in ‘87.
Karma comes full circle in ‘o8.
Comment by mr mackey — April 8, 2008 @ 1:55 pm
The cult of scientology is unspeakably vile. It is a petty horrid operation driven by greed and control. It is evil.
Much support to you, D. Sorry it looks like the Scifaggots are getting ready to Fair Game you.
Terryeo, you are nothing but a lunatic or under the complete control of your cult and are not worth making any more of a reply to.
The rest of Humanity is sick unto death of this filthy verminous cult and its asthmatic, enema loving drunkard CoB, David Miscavige. Shame he wasn’t a David Miscarriage as the world would be a better place without his stench.
Comment by Supporter of Anonymous — April 8, 2008 @ 1:58 pm
I think if you talk to the ex Commodore’s Messengers who were at Gilman Hot Springs at the time of Hubbard’s death, some will speak, and have spoken on their opinions, that those women and men I think have the best on the ground take of what actually transpired. They know the atmosphere, they personally know Annie and Pat Broeker as people, and they know DM’s character at that moment in history. I think as MORE ex senior people step up and speak up, and it becomes more “safe” for people like Pat Broeker, who hasn’t spoken up except privately to Vaughn Young, there are ex top people who can give their takes on what was the atmosphere. I’ve been wrong, I’ve underestimated the bad stuff, and on the death of Hubbard, I cannot believe they murdered him. I could only think they might have “let him die” type of thing, in a similar neglect that is systemic in Scientology, since Hubbard himself only allowed a doctor of Dr. Gene Denk’s caliber care for Hubbard. If you read of Kima Douglas’ earlier years as Hubbard’s Medical Liaison Officer, tending to Hubbard, how Hubbard himself wouldn’t allow doctors to tend him. And the actual last final days of Hubbard’s life, my sense is Hubbard’s own paranoid mental ill health influenced those tending Hubbard to “back off” and let Hubbard die, finally. I think truly, his own wierd mindset influenced those closest physically to him, to neglect him to his death, most likely. There’s the story that Dr. Denk was in Las Vegas at the moment Hubbard passed away, if this is true, that would lend towards that view. But if Hubbard was outright murdered, like Vaughn Young (who I highly respect, and who certainly inspired me in my own voyage OUT of the movement) speculated, I’ll certainly accept it, if it proves to be true. More likely, I think there is the actual details, like let’s say that indeed Denk was in Las Vegas, and Pat or Annie or whoever was actually at Hubbard’s bedside, and whoever was unauthorizedly injecting those medicinally intentioned milder “psych” drugs that Hubbard was taking, my guess is that Hubbard’s final injections might indeed have been unauthorizedly injected by one of his close associate aides like Annie or Pat, or whoever else injected Hubbard (this type of unauthorized medial help for sure was in keeping with Hubbard’s own low opinions of the medical field, thinking he or any of his aides could act like Doctors to whatever extent they themselves wished, that’s completely Hubbard’s viewpoint). We need Pat Broeker and Annie Broeker to just tell us what happened. Whichever people were there the last couple weeks and days and moments when Hubbard died, well, I hope those people speak up! I think the truth is as simple as those who were there when Hubbard died, simply telling what happened. I personally told several of the book writers (the people doing serious articles and books on the Scientology movement) where Pat Broeker is almost certainly living today, that is somewhat widely shared now, and it is up to whoever can coax the truth out of Pat and the other close top associates of Hubbard’s who were present when Hubbard died.
Likely one of Hubbard’s close aides was injecting him, since the records showed the band-aide over the spot on Hubbard’s butt where the recent injections were done, and obviously, if Dr Denk was in Las Vegas, then someone else did those injections, and how much was injected, was it a mistake, exactly those final days and hours, whoever did the injecting, I hope someone gets the story from whoever that last person injecting Hubbard, or that person speaks up someday themselves. I think it likely that that person was NOT a doctor, and thus their injecting Hubbard was illegal, etc., etc. That’s my educated guess on Hubbard’s final days and hours.
Chuck Beatty
ex Scientology staffer (1975-2003)
412-260-1170 Pittsburgh, USA (anyone call me anytime!)
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckbeatty77/
http://tinyurl.com/295khy
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05205/542899.stm
http://tinyurl.com/38ptz8 buffalo video
http://tinyurl.com/ywhgaf buffalo poster
Comment by Chuck Beatty — April 8, 2008 @ 2:17 pm
nice job reporting once again D, and don’t let the OSA goons frighten you or get away with any attempted Fair Gaming. Like many have said, Document everything, get a digital &/or video camera to carry with you, home security system, inform friends, family, co-workers about the Co$’s dirty tactics. I would set up security cameras outside of workplace and home.
One tactic they’re likely to try is to use a P.I. to follow you as an intimidation tactic and to learn who you associate with. If you suspect a PI (or Co$ goons) parked in/around home or work, parked places they shouldn’t, call security, the police for backup.
Video is your best weapon against them.
Comment by Mr Grey Anonymous — April 8, 2008 @ 3:07 pm
I believe he was not murdered. My educated guess is with Dr. Denk in Las Vegas at the moment Hubbard died, I believe it was normal practice for whichever of the Broekers it was, both maybe, who actually tended Hubbard’s bedside, to inject Hubbard, when Dr. Denk wasn’t there to do the injecting. Hubbard was getting injections of those milder “psych” drugs (Vistiril or whichever) that Hubbard was being injected with. Vaughn Young speculated Hubbard might simply have been overdosed by injection. I think it is important to talk to a wide number of ex Commodore’s Messengers, lots are out, I asked some about this, and others have spoken, and others like Kima Douglas, who in years earlier was Hubbard’s Medical Liaison Officer, who injected Hubbard with this or that, who know Hubbard’s health scene. My take is Hubbard hated doctors, and his own mindset allowed him to have only a doctor of Dr. Gene Denk’s caliber to attend Hubbard, that shows a lot about Hubbard even causing his own health neglect! I am almost positive Dr. Denk and the close Hubbard aides, Pat and Annie Broeker, all were in on the unauthorized injections that Hubbard was receiving. Meaning not just Dr. Denk was doing the injections, but Pat or Annie or even someone else who wasn’t technically authorized to give injections of those drugs, since I think certain injections can only be administered by nurses or doctors, etc., whatever. That is in keeping with Hubbard’s own mentality, his disrespect for medical doctors, I am almost positive that the scene was more likely simply neglect, his own paranoid anti medical attitudes, that caused those around him to let him die when if he had sought better normal hospital treatment, he likely would have lived a couple years longer. I think it best to talk to the ex Commodore’s Messsengers and ex ASI execs who were around DM at the time, to tell their feelings about the likelihood of Norman or DM actually intentionally overinjecting LRH. Whoever was actually there at Hubbard’s bedside those last several days and hours right before his death, those are the people who would know what happened exactly preceding his death. Whoever did the actual final injections, if those injections were the cause, or the lack of injections that were keeping him alive, the withholding of medical help, that is also the other side, and could have been intentional also. Sending Dr. Denk to Las Vegas in one of the reports of what happened, is also relevant to this “neglect” angle of the acceleration of Hubbard’s death, if this is relevant. If Dr Denk was indeed in Las Vegas at the actual moment of Hubbard’s death, if the Vaugh Young speculations are in the right (I highly respect Vaughn, and he and Stacy going public inspired me to get OUT and speak up in the minor way I have), then we need to know who was with LRH those last two days, who injected Hubbard’s butt with the drugs, since the death report noted the bandaid on Hubbard’s butt with the half dozen or so recent needle puncture marks. I’m inclined to think DM and Norman would NOT have overinjected LRH. My sense is they would have tried to inject enough into LRH until Dr. Denk could be recalled from Las Vegas. Maybe they just stopped injecting Hubbard. Those final moments, I think we need to hear the story from those there. I’ve told several of the upcoming book writers where I think Pat lives, so hopefully someone can coax the story out of him. If Annie was at LRH’s bedside, she’d know, and Annie is at Gilman Hot Springs, and she can tell her story someday, and I hope she does. Same with Norman Starkey, and David Miscavige. Several of them will have to admit to injecting Hubbard his medicine (”psych” drugs or whatever it was it he was getting injected with). The records show the bandaid on Hubbard’s butt, and the needle punction marks. So someone injected Hubbbard. I personally don’t think they murdered him, but I’ve been wrong on all of the bad recent years harsh stuff. We need to hear the story from those who were there, and from those that injected Hubbard’s butt with whichever drugs, and the quantities injected, at what exact moment in those last days, hours of Hubbard’s life.
Chuck Beatty
ex Scientology staffer (1975-2003)
412-260-1170 Pittsburgh, USA (anyone call me anytime!)
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckbeatty77/
http://tinyurl.com/295khy
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05205/542899.stm
http://tinyurl.com/38ptz8 buffalo video
http://tinyurl.com/ywhgaf buffalo poster
Comment by Chuck Beatty — April 8, 2008 @ 3:12 pm
“Does the phrase, “dumber than dirt†ring a bell? Do you know human reaction to persistent anger?”
Dumber than dirt?? Hmm… That’s an old phrase that refers to a scientologist, right, Terryeo?? Your comment is interesting - you guys getting ready to shoot yourselves in the foot again???
Comment by Thomas — April 8, 2008 @ 3:46 pm
Digg, please:
http://digg.com/celebrity/Was_Scientology_Founder_L_Ron_Hubbard_Murdered
Comment by Yarra — April 8, 2008 @ 3:48 pm
Brave gossip babe is brave.
All of anonymous is watching your back. (And that is over 9000!)
As they said in Chicago ‘68, “The whole world is watching.”
It is why the main stream media must grow some gonads: the bigger you are the harder for them to fair game you.
Imagine them attacking Katie Couric.
Comment by marcab — April 8, 2008 @ 4:10 pm
@9. D, My posted comment included an example of the human reaction to persistent anger. Which is boredom. But if you had studied the Scientology Tone Scale and combined it with your experience, you would sometimes have observed an angry person and other people growing bored with it. Oh hum, Oh hum. That’s the way the tech reads to, Ohhh, do dah day. G’wan to sing all night, G’wan to sing all day. Anger bores me don’t you know, Ohhh, Do dah day. Still feel threatened?
Not that I expect you’ll quit sniping, refusing to attribute your columns, or feel you’re appropriate and everyone else is not. But hey, I’m happy to let you know.
Comment by Terryeo [TM] — April 8, 2008 @ 4:25 pm
Bravo, Dawn, yet again. I always assumed that there was something odd about Hubbard’s death- I would even go so far as to postulate that perhaps the psychiatric drugs in his system at the time of his passing were administered without his permission, as a form of insurance allowing Miscavige to step into his place as a better model of a leader if there was any dissent.
Please please please be careful by documenting everything as the OSA goons circle above, and remember, the truth shall set you free. Morton, Ebner and Bunker have all proven that documenting every ounce of harassment is as effective as Krytponite against these guys. Keep your pets indoors (RIP Mudkips and others), invest in a security system, and if you’re even followed, drive directly to the nearest police station- get an escort home if necessary.
As for your rights, you have many. The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment prohibits the establishment of a national religion by Congress or the preference of one religion over another, or religion over non-religion. It also allows anyone to assemble peaceably to practice that religion. It does not demand that you give undue deference or respect to that religion. In fact, the First Amendment demands that the state not show undue deference of one religion over another- something that the IRS has done in the Michael and Marla Sklar case in LA.
The other handy thing that the First Amendment gives you the right to do, as a member of the Press, electronic or otherwise, is to write about your and other’s experiences. That includes any and all harassment you encounter from members of the CoS. You are not yelling “Fire!” in a crowded theatre- you are not plucking facts out of thin air. You are investigating legitimate news stories.
Consider another newsworthy topic at the moment- the Church of the Fundamental Latter-Day Saints and their compound just outside of Waco, TX that was just raided. To practice most aspects of their religion is not expressly prohibited, but bigamy, incest and sexual abuse is. That’s why over 400 women and children were taken out of the isolated compound, and why their leader, Warren Jeffs, was on the FBI most wanted list until he was caught.
Message from the Feds? You can practice a religion all you want- it doesn’t give you the right to paint outside the lines of the laws of man.
To play with the cans doesn’t harass people; and if anyone wants to do that, more power to ya. But for a religion not only to countenance but to encourage and actively pursue a systematic attempt to frame any and all critics is not inside the laws of society. There is no reason you should have to tolerate it, even for a moment, especially when you have done nothing but report the truth.
Hit back just as hard against them using any and all legal means; remind them that regardless whether they believe in their OT powers or not, they are powerless against the strength and power of the State. We’re behind you.
Comment by Nameless (but not anonymous) — April 8, 2008 @ 4:27 pm
TO, I swear to God every time you come out to make less and less sense and ramble on more and more. Your mind is seriously starting to buckle under the stress.
Luckily I was able to understand the first two sentences where your point is if you’re constantly angry people grow tired of it. That’s true for anything though, for instance we’re all fucking tired of you regurgitating the same crap over and over. Get a new gimmick.
That song part though, I’m sorry to say, you’ve gone bat-shit crazy.
Comment by David — April 8, 2008 @ 4:33 pm
Terryeo, are you all right?? I mean, seriously, I hope that you’re acting insane as some kind of strategy(??)
Plus, if you’re bored, why don’t you just go read something else?? Try xenu.net.
Comment by Thomas — April 8, 2008 @ 4:37 pm
LRH became insane because he started living in the fantasy world he created to enslave his followers.
Or was it because he was emotially or physicially weak and/or dependent on prescription medication? If the later, I guess he should have known to apply LRH technology more accurately, because the tech is never wrong. How ironic.
Comment by AnonymousNow — April 8, 2008 @ 4:53 pm
I had a cognition.
The process of locating ‘anonymous leaders’ can actually create the very thing they’re looking for. Self fulfilling prophecy.
Comment by Observation — April 8, 2008 @ 6:16 pm
Hey Terryeo, have you read the OT (1-8) documents yet over at wikileaks? If you are low on the bridge you can save yourself a lot of money. Aren’t you a little bit curious?
What harm can it do? If you are bored the documents could be quite interesting for you to look through.
http://file.sunshinepress.org:54445/scientology-ot-levels.pdf
Comment by Maxwell Smart — April 8, 2008 @ 6:44 pm
fascinating stuff Dawn - you really should be proud of your whole body of work covering the yin/yang of Scientology/Anonymous - thanks!
Comment by Eric Olsen — April 8, 2008 @ 6:52 pm
I definitely agree with Eric. Thank you for all the hard work!
Comment by Maxwell Smart — April 8, 2008 @ 7:05 pm
AND BY THE WAY, WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THIS BLOG?
I KNOW I’M SPELLING “ENTURBULATE’ CORRECTLY, YET YOUR MAL-FUNCTIONING WOG/SP BLOG KEEPS FLAGGING IT WITH SPELL CHECK. WTH!!!
You best be joking. See also: Words that do not actually exist.
It’s the constiglation, man!
P.S.: You’re obviously using Firefox, or some spellcheck add-on.
But if you had studied the Scientology Tone Scale and combined it with your experience, you would sometimes have observed an angry person and other people growing bored with it. Oh hum, Oh hum. That’s the way the tech reads to, Ohhh, do dah day. G’wan to sing all night, G’wan to sing all day. Anger bores me don’t you know, Ohhh, Do dah day. Still feel threatened?
Except your Tone Scale tries to suggest that humans all act alike. This is impossible, because all reality is subject to the perception of every individual. You can prove this easily with likes, dislikes, annoyances, and pet peeves.
For example, you say that the human reaction(unspecified, heh) to constant anger is boredom. My reaction is actually amusement. Now, it could just be that I’m much, MUCH older than you, but that’s my natural reaction.
Unfortunately, you can’t read anger, anyways. Myself, I rarely ever get angry(it’s been about…6-7 years since last). I understand a power far beyond anything you could hope to learn from LRH’s half-assed sci-fi tech. I understand the ripple itself– the ability to perceive the balance to each and every event. Any punch you throw at me, I pull toward me– and use your own attack against you.
Comment by Dio Brando — April 8, 2008 @ 8:56 pm
As far as I know any and perhaps all comments labeled here as “comment by Terryeo were by someone posing as Terryeo as is often also the case for myself and others as well. Of course no one can put this or any other crimes on the legion of Anonymous as they operate in a “non-connected” manner. At any rate it is most likely that for some representing themselves as Anonymous who do not have the same intent as Anonymous whatever that is actually have something to hide and of course are hiding behind the group called Anonymous. What would they have to hide? Their real reasons for attacking Scientology, whether it be religious bigotry or a vested interest such as profits from the sales of PsychoPharmaceuticals which dwarf anything the Church of Scientology is doing which really aren’t profits but are being invested into the expansion of the CoS as evidenced by recent purchases of buildings over the world which rather than being mansions for the top echelon are to be used for servicing the Scientologist parishioners.
You can be sure the upper echelon of the psychopharmaceuticals are living it up in the lap of luxury though and of course the capitalists that they are, are not having to deal with any attention drawn to them in spite of all the damage they have done in cohort with psychiatrists to countless men, women and children(Google “psychiatry ritalin death” and various other combinations to learn more of this industry of death.
Finally, regarding this particular web-site posting and comments simply consider the sources of the comments, mostly all anonymous or posing as someone where these tired old allegations are not supported by anything but pure speculative cut and paste from other conspiracy theory web-sites. The autopsy finding that he had some trace of something that is labled as a psychotropic but which is also a component of an insecticide which was being used on the ranch. The man was simply on his deathbed and was having several visitors come and go which somehow continues to churn murder allegations so many years after the fact. Does anyone find it odd that no one was arrested for aiding and abetting this man who was supposedly dodging the law.
Comment by Curiouser — April 8, 2008 @ 9:57 pm
Curiouser–name the insecticide that has a psychiatric tranquilizer as a component. I REALLY would like to know that. If you can’t, then you’re either buying blindly into what you’re being told, or LYING.
Also, for dear old LRon to have it in his blood in any appreciable quantities when he was probably spending his last days bedridden in the trailer…was he huffing it?
Also, run-on sentences are not your friend unless you’re trying to confuse someone or are deliberately trying to not make a point.
And finally, while I’m not a fan of knee-jerk medication prescriptions, there was a study published recently that showed that after CCHR’s minor win earlier this decade in getting “OMG DEATH!” warnings on antidepressants and the comcomitant decline in their use/prescription…the suicide rate JUMPED TREMENDOUSLY–this is after a solid 10+ year DECLINE. What happened at the start of that 10 year period? SSRIs began to see widespread use. Hmm…
Ergo: while the medication may provide the energy needed for a small percentage of people to suicide, it PREVENTS far more suicides.
CCHR is, to put it kindly, Dead Wrong.
Comment by Anonymous — April 8, 2008 @ 10:14 pm
The autopsy finding that he had some trace of something that is labled as a psychotropic but which is also a component of an insecticide which was being used on the ranch.
That would mean he injected insecticide into his ass. To have enough of say, insecticide, to show up in the bloodstream like that– means he either ate food SOAKING in it, or he eats like three bears with the hunger of four bears. Or, you know, injected drugs. Hey, guess what sort of markings were found on his body?
But admitting that he had a psychotropic in his bloodstream, Curiouser, you just totally backhanded everything David Miscavige wants you to believe. How would your handlers deal with someone who believes LRH really DID die with any drugs in his system?
Comment by Dio Brando — April 8, 2008 @ 10:19 pm
Curiouser, are you suggesting that L. Ron Hubbard was in fact poisoned with a quantity of insecticide large enough to appear as a dose of Vistaril on a tox screen?
Also, it was not an autopsy, David Miscavige claimed (falsely) that Scientologists are religiously opposed to autopsies, preventing the cause of death from being verified. Vistaril was detected in a blood sample from L. Ron Hubbard.
Comment by Steven — April 9, 2008 @ 12:32 am
Thank you for the advice on run-on sentences.
This link describes how vistiril is used as an antihistamine(yes, I mistated when I said insecticide).
http://www.drugs.com/vistaril.html
If you had bothered to read the church’s response to Morton’s book you would have read:
Vistaril is an antihistamine. It is used to treat itchiness from allergic eactions. Mr. Hubbard lived on a ranch with horses, cattle and other livestock—hence, he allergic reactions.Further, Mr. Hubbard’s body was not “full†of Vistaril upon his death. As the toxicology report clearly states: “ Trace of Hydroxyzine (Vistaril).†A “trace of†is not “full of†(and as the toxicology report clearly provides, no other drugs or alcohol were present).
Suicide is a result of so many factors, so this 10 year study during which many other factors were certainly present is not a strong argument. One factor would have been people discontinuing their prescriptions. In the various campus shootings and many other homicide/suicides, a major factor was the discontinuation of their psychotropic prescription. Not because they saw a death warning on the label but because one day they simply decided, apparently incorrectly, that they no longer needed to take these psychotropics. One would assume these people were psychotics in need of stronger prescriptions but usually they started out with a little anxiety and got a prescription from their doctor after which they got stronger ones from a psychiatrists. Not all psychotropics are equal. Some researchers say the dangerous psychotropics control people while disablinig them while making them psychotic at the same time if not death as discussed in this USA today article where it discusses the number of deaths caused by psychotropics per year exceeding the total number of servicemen lost in the vietname war.
http://www.stopshrinks.org/reading_room/drugs/dark_side_1.htm
Comment by curiouser — April 9, 2008 @ 1:40 am
Any ability to verify his cause of death was destroyed when DM had LRH cremated and scattered to the waters and winds. Isn’t that curious curiouser.
Interesting that you feel this blog is not very worthy or that the commenters are …”the sources of the comments, mostly all anonymous or posing as someone where these tired old allegations are not supported by anything but pure speculative cut and paste from other conspiracy theory web-sites.”….. If that is the case why do you bother coming here at all?
I also notice you guys/gals only seem to post on the articles that reveal facts particular damning to the CoS. Is D hitting close to home eh?
And once again the big “pharma drug company” conspiracy theory rears its head. You should read up on Godwin’s law and I dare say Godwin’s law should be revised to inlcude nazism and pharma drug companies together. Dawn has a good post on that very topic. You should read it.
And lastly, I think most of the anons here can tell the difference between the CoS Terryo and the false ones. I think if you refer to your own fair game policy you will find payback is a beeyatch. Simply put Terryo is not a credible source of information and his/her methods are rather down stat so you may want to consider giving him/her something else to do than post on the blogs.
Comment by Mitsu Too — April 9, 2008 @ 7:17 am
Curioser:
FLUNK!
I cannot believe you trotted out the old horse about TEH EBIL PSYCHIATRISTS!
Lafayette Ronald Hubbard was a cocksucking sociopath and you and the other scifags are fools for following him. You are following a delusion and harming yourselves and your families.
Why don’t you google “Operation Show White” and “Fair Game” before you tell others to google anything.
Comment by Supporter of Anonymous — April 9, 2008 @ 8:52 am
Curiouser:
If Phychiatry is so evil, why does scientology have no issues with using a law firm that sponsors events for manufacturers of psych drugs?
http://unex.uci.edu/pressroom/releases/2005/1012_octane.asp
^Latham & Watkins is the firm sending out letters/DVDs to anonymous members
Also, since we’re on the subject of conspiracies, why does http://thecommline.com/ (a scientology website) use the same earth/sun picture in it’s header that appeared in the bomb threat video that scientologists claim anonymous made? That would imply that the CoS had access to that picture prior to the bomb threat being made, wouldn’t it?
Comment by David — April 9, 2008 @ 9:08 am
I simply can not believe that anyone could feel threatened by a question. Question: What is the human reaction to persistent anger? Answer by Anon - every human being is different, nobody knows. Actual answer - If you are not standing in the path of such anger, if you are a witness, an observer, well, before long you grow bored when you observe someone being persistently angry. Yes, human beings feel the same emotions. But not at the same time. The range of possible emotions is not unknowable, if you follow.
Comment by Terryeo — April 9, 2008 @ 12:24 pm
To #38, good ol’ TO Uhhh… I said the exact same thing at #23 so don’t act so superior that people don’t “get” you. I also said people also get tired of your special brand of BS.
Also, answer the questions I asked in #37. You didn’t answer them when someone asked you before and CoS lawyers being schills for psychiatrists (your great evil) answer them now.
Comment by David — April 9, 2008 @ 12:45 pm
Dawn, this is why I love you so much. Thank you for your support, your diligence, and your continued insight into this vicious cult.
With help from people like you, our fight, our cause and our persistence, I’m sure we have a guaranteed win to get this batty cult stripped of it’s religious status and thusly, its tax exemption status in our country.
This is the START that we hope for. Thanks again.
Comment by OT666 — April 9, 2008 @ 12:58 pm
Terryeo, put the joint down and try to type something that makes sense!!
Comment by Thomas — April 9, 2008 @ 1:25 pm
Great article. What happened to Hubbard is as old as man. It was simply the cult version of a Coup d’état.
Comment by Jack — April 9, 2008 @ 1:38 pm
The FZ and Rocky the Squirrell say thank you for this story. Discredit Church management but not Scientology = lots of caek for the FZ.
It’s entertaining to watch the hive swarm around the next plausible argument without any concern for who the queen bee is now.
And who said “we aren’t your personal army”?
Comment by Rocky — April 9, 2008 @ 2:39 pm
Uh, what?! Rocky, you’ve taken one too many hits to the head!!!
Comment by Thomas — April 9, 2008 @ 5:18 pm
uh curiouser, I’m changing my handle now so as not to be confused with your half baked statements.
Dawn, thanks again for your hard work. Glosslip rules!
Comment by curious — April 9, 2008 @ 5:21 pm
Terryeo, the reason we don’t study or use the tone scale is because it’s useless. The reaction to persistent anger is boredom? How about the reaction to persistent anger being anger, or intimidation, or fear? I don’t get bored when someone is yelling obscenities at me, or when someone is on some passive aggressive trip. If you’re bored when someone’s clearly angry at you, the answer is that you have schizoid personality disorder. Scientology encourages the main symptom of this disorder: flat affect. That’s when someone is yelling at you or insulting you and you’re simply sitting there with a poker face. Look at the drills in the communications course… you flunk if you show any reaction to having your buttons pushed. I hear they call it “flattening the buttons” in Scientology speak. It’s sick. People are meant to express their emotions, not suppress them. No wonder so many Scientologists eventually flip out.
Comment by anonymous — April 9, 2008 @ 5:36 pm
Who is most interested in seeing church management discredited?
It’s called the Freezone (FZ).
Check your facts. I know this is a gossip page, but if you want the real scoop, you should check it out.
http://www.scientologymyths.info/freezone/
Comment by Rocky — April 9, 2008 @ 6:31 pm
This is rich. “If you want the real scoop, go to a CoS site created for propaganda!”
Freezoners are barely involved. They are certainly not orchestrating the movements of anonymous, as you so transparently intimate. But thanks for clarifying as to whether you’re a scilon shill or just mentally challenged.
Comment by Anonymous — April 9, 2008 @ 7:16 pm
I didn’t mean check it out ONLY on the scientologymyths site. I meant check out the freezone and their stake in all of this. I hope you’re capable of doing your own research on more than one link (although it’s not clear that you have).
I know who I am shilling for. It looks like some of you are shilling for a variety of different people and groups and don’t even seem to know it. There’s evidence of this on your “side’s” own websites and forums if you have eyes.
This battle has been going on for decades and it seems you’re new to it. I’m suggesting you keep an open mind and look further. The FZ is just one part of it.
Comment by Rocky — April 9, 2008 @ 8:42 pm
I know the battle helps the FZ–and indeed, everyone who wants to practice scientology. It also helps the families of current CoS members, psychiatrists, drug rehab centers, people in disaster areas, the citizens of clearwater and everywhere else the CoS has sought to impose itself as the “authorities of the mind” and spirit.
We’re also helping the private investigator industry, apparently. Though hopefully that will just be a short-term boost.
There are as many stakes in this fight as there are people. What there isn’t, however, is an overriding goal except the reform or dissolution of the CoS crime syndicate.
The freezoners are scientologists too. They just don’t line Miscavige’s pockets to practice their faith. I don’t necessarily agree with hubbardism, but I won’t infringe on their right to practice it–unlike the CoS, they don’t appear to have harmed anyone in their following it.
Comment by Anonymous — April 9, 2008 @ 9:52 pm
The trouble with “LRH was murdered” is that it can probably never be proven. Only a very few people were on the scene when Hubbard died of a stroke, a couple of “ranch hands” (who have never been traced), and possibly the Broekers. Miscavage and Dr. Denk were, according to R. V. Young, trying their luck at the casino at Lake Tahoe, and he had to drive them to the ranch.
Hubbard had already had a stroke some ten days previously, and Dr. Denk [his personal physician, and a Scientologist] was injecting Vistaril to combat the mental confusion that often follows a stroke. It has often been claimed that Hubbard died screaming that Body Thetans were getting him, but I have never found a source for this statement; whether there was a witness who heard this, or whether it is just informed speculation.
The idea that Hubbard was murdered comes from R. V. Young; he based it mainly on circumstantial evidence, especially the fact that Hubbard never left a farewell message to his followers, and that he made a new will the day before he died. That is why a blood sample was taken; circumstances like that make coroners curious.
The bottom line is that there are only three people still alive in a position to say what really happened that night: David Miscavage and the Broekers, and none of them are likely to ever admit the truth. Robert V. Young is dead, Dr. Denk is dead. It is unlikely that either of the ranch hands, whoever they were, saw or heard much.
If Hubbard was in fact actually murdered, or more likely, left alone to die, then, like Rossum in RUR, he died at the hands of his own creation.
Comment by Xenunetmonitor — April 9, 2008 @ 11:08 pm
I checked out Freezone at
http://www.scientologymyths.info/
where it responds to many of the myths about Scientology regarding Freezone, psychiatry, etc. Regarding Freezone it pretty much says they are basically doing Scientology their own way although they are basically copying Scientology, that they are structured as a business and are paid for their services.
I have also checked out other sites about Freezone. And, in my opinion, if Freezone has been in any way significantly involved with Anonymous, they have most likely separated ways by now. Also, in my opinion if the psychopharmaceuticals have been involved they are distancing themselves as well. And considering that I can no longer find Glosslip.com on Google News the search engines may very well be extricating Anonymous from their databases.
I respond to Anonymous’ promotion of psychiatry and the use of psychotropics not so much because I am concerned that psychiatry is in any way sponsoring Anonymous but more because I am concerned there has been a cascade of misinformation involving many groups of people suggesting that psychiatry actually does anything other than harm. I have read the “strong” arguments by psychiatry that laws should be passed which would take away a person’s right to refuse psychotropics based on somebody’s opinion that psychiatry actually benefitted somebody. To see this in action check out “The Implementation of Act 114 at the Vermont State Hospital” which is basically a legislative report favoring use of a law which was passed authorizing involuntary injection of psychotropics:
http://healthvermont.gov/admin/legislature/documents/Act114_report_final_012208.pdf
The intent of this article is to convince the legislature that psychotropics can help so that the law would be renewed. There was no control group so when they discussed how many of these patients actually did get better there would be an invalid assumption that these patients would not have gotten better if they had received no psychotropics. And as it is pointed out that injections could not be enforced indefinitely, patients with agnosognosia which basically means the patient is not aware or does not believe that he has a condition in need of “treatment” are likely to discontinue “treatment” especially when they feel the psychotropics are doing them harm as discussed in this article:
http://www.stopshrinks.org/reading_room/drugs/dark_side_1.htm
Comment by Curiouser — April 9, 2008 @ 11:29 pm
Question: What is the human reaction to persistent anger? Answer by Anon - every human being is different, nobody knows. Actual answer - If you are not standing in the path of such anger, if you are a witness, an observer, well, before long you grow bored when you observe someone being persistently angry. Yes, human beings feel the same emotions. But not at the same time. The range of possible emotions is not unknowable, if you follow.
As #45 said, if your reaction to anger ALL UP IN YO FACE, YO is boredom, you have a serious mental issue.
Humans are by nature social, so if someone were a spectator to anger, they would either avoid it, or intervene(fight or flight).
Excluding mental disorders where someone is essentially stoic, not everyone will respond in the same manner. You don’t need some inane scale to understand the range of basic-level emotions. However, you fail to recognize dual or mixed emotions.
The nature of Scientology is to try and boil the individual down to a soup, of which all humans are made. What a blinding idea.
Comment by Dio Brando — April 10, 2008 @ 1:28 am
We’ll probably never know if elrong was slaughtered, but what we can say is that he was let down by his personal Doctor, Gene Denk, while dying or in very bad shape.
What’s most needed and wanted for everyone here - including scientologists - is to get the evidences that Miscavige acted illegally when the fortune and copyrights were transmitted, that he acted illegally against the Broeker couple, that he acted perhaps absolutely illegally by burning the corpse and putting its ashes in the sea, and that since, he has acted illegally against the totality of the scientology membership.
Comment by roger gonnet — April 10, 2008 @ 2:45 am
[...] am still working on part two of a theory about the death of L. Ron Hubbard. But there are many people who have differing views on what happened in the last days before [...]
Pingback by GlossLip » Web Poll: Was L. Ron Hubbard Murdered? Cast Your Vote — April 10, 2008 @ 11:15 am
I *love* the (actual) Terryeo’s comments here and elsewhere on the web.
They’re meant to be pointed and incisive counters to critiques of Scientology’s abuses… but instead read like a, “this is your mind on Scientology” laugh track.
Please, please, please… keep posting the same illogical arguments all over the Internet. You have no idea how many people your words are inoculating against ever being sucked into such a brainwashed cult.
Comment by David Mudkips — April 10, 2008 @ 7:00 pm
Aaah. Just finished a scientology auditing session. It’s nice to feel so calm that even running into this strange stuff doesn’t bother me at all.
Comment by Stephen Paul Reid — April 11, 2008 @ 7:30 am
I am no fan of $cientology but really, it seems unlikely. Your average Scientology exec would cut his own legs off before harming a hair on Elron’s head. Elron died from just the way the coroner reported.
Comment by Phil Itupp — April 11, 2008 @ 9:28 am
Hi Stephen Paul Reid,
I am concerned with your statement which clearly reveals that you are experiencing the mood altering effect of Scientology auditing, which in a great part is an artificial effect of the e-meter itself.
The e-meter actually applies an electric charge through the skin. While this charge is below the level which can be felt by the person, the charge does stimulate the production of the opiate-like endorphins.
The medical application of a slight electrical charge to the skin to alleviate pain is called transient electro neural stimulation, or TENS. The electric charge used in Scientology’s e-meter is 10 times stronger than the charge delivered by these TENS devices.
Usually our body releases endorphins in response to pain. In the absence of pain, endorphins will produce a euphoric effect. Many people are familiar with the “Runner’s High” effect, in which the runner’s body responds to the stress of exercise by releasing endorphins and producing a feeling of euphoria.
Any activity or behavior that can repeatedly stimulate the production of endorphins carries a serious potential for addiction. Since endorphins are the human body’s own opiate, this addiction can be likened to an addiction to heroin or cocaine.
It is now clearly understood that runner’s can become addicted to their own endorphins. Self-mutilation, like the cutting phenomenon, is another example of self-addiction. It is very likely that repeated use of an e-meter is addictive in the very same way.
Most alarming is the fact that latest model of e-meter produces the strongest charge yet. This ramp-up in the e-meter’s charge correlates with the way that increased tolerance in opiate addiction leads to ever increasing use and abuse of the drug. The same is true of self-addiction, such as cutting and running. The addict engages in more and more of this behavior to maintain the feeling of well-being derived by stimulating the body to produce more endorphins.
The conclusion is that use of the e-meter is addictive. The euphoric effect reinforces the subject’s desire to be audited, and ultimately produces the desire to learn to solo audit (like how a drug user may become a drug dealer in order to support his/her habit.)
Of course it costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to gain all of this e-meter access.
Stephen, Scientology creates and exploits addicts for monetary gain. You are clearly being taken advantage of, and you are not being advised of the long term risks of this treatment (cell damage, possible risk for cancer.)
The long term effects of use of the e-meter have never been studied by the medical establishment, however there is a notable incidence of cancer among long-time users of the e-meter.
Stephen, please read more about the risks of using an e-meter here:
http://www.lermanet.com/endorphin-emeter.htm
http://www.lermanet.com/e-metershort.htm
Comment by SouManona — April 11, 2008 @ 12:10 pm
just curious….where is L. Ron’s body…was he buried, cremated, frozen, or shot into space?
Comment by gary — April 11, 2008 @ 12:41 pm
@Gary: They cremated L. Ron quickly after the coroner drew blood samples. Interesting to note that the blood samples they provided had no vistaril, but the blood samples taken by the coroner did.
Comment by Anawnymoose — April 11, 2008 @ 1:19 pm
“I am no fan of $cientology but really, it seems unlikely. Your average Scientology exec would cut his own legs off before harming a hair on Elron’s head.”
I think it’s safe to say that your average citizen doesn’t commit murder at all, and yet murders still get committed. All it would take is one un-average Scientology exec with the requisite access — and really, any Scientology exec who was actually seeing LRH in person at that stage was by definition not an “average” Scientology exec.
Comment by AF — April 11, 2008 @ 9:59 pm
I have my many conspiracies about the CoS. Like, I think that maybe, assuming that L.Ron could be right. He purposely left his body and let a body thetan or wandering, lower being, inhabit his body, because he knew that CIA agents were infiltrating the CoS in that time. The present day CoS is run by a faction of the illluminati. That is why it is more money driven. I believe that David Miscavige is one of these world elite. I mean, he has a powerful presence and a great voice. He could be a movie star and a poweful individual. I think that these execs, at first, their goal was to change the technology so that Scientologist could not actually gain the superhuman powers, but only get minor, yet powerful gains from Scientology Technology, but because of the media attention since the whole T.C. thing, they have decided to change their course. Now, they are trying to make it as easy as possible for people to understand Scientology, by changing up the basic books, for starters, to make Scientology easier to understand, to anyone who reads it. They are now tweaking everything so people can actually get the superhuman effects that it was supposed to deliver. This is probably the reason why, Freezone Scientologist, claim to have greater wins in the freezone than in the CoS. Cause the technology had been altered to make it more difficult. But in recent years, they have taken a different course. The current OT levels are only preliminary to the ones that actually unleash superhuman powers. That is why they are so set on expanding members and organizations, they need Scientology to be as solid as possible so they can rely on enough loyal staff the safeguard the secrets that actually create superhuman ability. If this technology was to be made public, as the preliminary OT levels, then everything could crumble, because The most powerful illuminati faction is capable of killing and destroying anybody who possesses this technology, as their purpose is complete planetary domination.
Comment by Truski — April 12, 2008 @ 3:00 am
Truski, the flaw in your theory is that not once has any Scientologist demonstrated superhuman ability.
If they could, they certainly would, because they know it would be an automatic win for them: everyone would know that Scientology could give people such abilities, and suddenly everyone would want to find out how Scientology could improve their own lives. Why would any loyal Scientologist who had the power to give Scientology a massive immediate win like that choose not to do so?
But the truth is that Scientology hasn’t even given people extraordinary abilities still within the range of human abilities. The one time that L. Ron Hubbard attempted to demonstrate that such a thing had happened, it was a complete and embarrassing failure for him. He brought The World’s First Clear (one of three individuals who wound up with that title) onto the stage and asked people to test her amazing powers of memory. She couldn’t even remember the color of the tie Hubbard had on.
Scientology does not make people more aware, more free, more capable beings, but instead more limited, more blind beings with less of a frame of reference. Perhaps some theoretical “Illuminati” would like to get their hands on that technology, but it wouldn’t lead to “complete planetary domination”.
Comment by AF — April 12, 2008 @ 12:02 pm
A problem with modern day Scientology infiltration conspiracy theories is that it has been extremely difficult for some time for an infiltrator to get very far into Scientology and I suspect the same is true for the Freezone and for many businesses which employ Scientology.
If anyone is interested there is plenty of material on the internet about infiltration into Scientology and reports of superpower abilities achieved by Scientologists. The following link is one of many I found using Google and the keywords “Scientology remote viewing”.
http://www.robertdam-cos.dk/SRI.html
While I found it somewhat interesting, as with any claims especially those on the internet there are always issues regarding veracity.
Comment by curiouser — April 12, 2008 @ 7:25 pm
A problem with modern day Scientology infiltration conspiracy theories is that it has been extremely difficult for some time for an infiltrator to get very far into Scientology[...]
Easier than you think. Costly, yes, but that’s only for pure insertion-fans. The cheaper method is to only climb some of the mountain on your own, then get others to rappel to your side, who’ve climbed it.
You’d be surprised, most likely, by those who leak this data.
reports of superpower abilities achieved by Scientologists.
They have virtually zero chance of learning how to alter the collective reality, unless they had that from before entering Scientol. At best, you’re able to affect personal reality(like how deep sadness can lead to greater illness risk) data, and only to an incredible simple level. Basically, you’re no different.
Comment by Dio Brando — April 12, 2008 @ 10:48 pm
A problem with modern day scientologist curioser is that when you site references or links to a site written by a scientologist and refer to so call research made by a scientologist one can’t help but take all you say as not quite credible or reliable. Can you produce an independent 3rd party study by anyone other than scientologist to back your claims? Didn’t think so or it would have been in all the credible scientific journals by now.
Comment by Mitsu Too — April 13, 2008 @ 6:56 am
Mitsu, you are apparently assuming these sites are put up by Scientologists. Very rarely do I put up a link to sites posted by Scientologists as Anonymous and their readers would naturally dismiss anything written by a Scientologist. I only select anti-psychiatry sites not written by Scientologists and I hardly go out of my way. Quite frankly I would be amazed if Anonymous is responding to my posts regarding psychiatry and psychotropics as I doubt they are interested or care either way. Of course we all know that the “eclectic” coalition known as Anonymous is easily infiltrated by anybody so I really figure I am arguing with psychiatrists and quite honestly these particular posts smell more like psychiatrists than chanologists or their followers. I am certainly not doing it for the lulz though. Anyway, I seriously doubt that any of the conspiracy sites are actually put up by Scientologists. My disclaimer regarding the veracity of these conspiracy sites is because I didn’t want anybody thinking that I believe in or agree with the content of these sites as I happen to know they aren’t so close to the truth.
I only recently learned that remote viewing was supposed to be connected to Scientology. There are quite fascinating conspiracy tales woven online involving the CIA, FBI, IRS, Masons, illuminati, Russians, Operation Snow White, probably Operation Freakout, Freezone along with the nazis and psychiatrists. As I said before there are major issues with the veracity of these sites even if they are closer to the truth than sites like xenu or even freezone as these provide entirely self-serving data and telling the truth is not part of their game.
Comment by curiouser — April 14, 2008 @ 3:02 am