Yes, we’ve certainly reached closure. Honest civil discourse wins!

I appreciate your coming here and replying again. I’m sorry for the tone, but I sometimes forget that people don’t follow celeb news like I do (I have to) or that perhaps they haven’t read the articles in question. I had assumed you’d read them, since you brought them up so many times, so naturally I was a bit confused. I’m sorry for making that assumption.

I understand that people have preconceived notions when somebody says “celeb blogger” or “celeb gossip”. They automatically get visions of snarky comments, photos of people in various stages of undress or embarrassing actions, and silly doodles on people’s faces. So many celeb sites just type out a little blurb making fun of the celeb in question, slap a few nasty photos on there, and move on to the next post, not bothering to peer beneath the surface and poke around a bit and see what’s really going on. That, or they shamelessly kiss butt trying to make a name for themselves. I mean, we could do those things…Dawn and I could make four or five times the postings we already do, possibly pick up more hits, maybe get more regular readers, make a lot of money. But that isn’t us. I don’t think we could live with ourselves if that’s what we did every day.

I think that this site has slowly evolved into less celeb “gossip” and more blogging about the ills that currently invade our world, using celebs as the conduit, especially since so many people look up to celebrities and want to be like them. It’s always been the focus, but I believe that especially with Dawn’s Scientology articles, it’s become even more prevalent.

So many children, teens, young people in the world just don’t have a figure in their life to point out that certain actions are immoral, indecent, or just plain wrong. They then grow up not knowing what they believe in and are ripe for anybody coming down the pike who can tickle their ears and amuse their eyes (much like Scientology does to people). They look up to these people who have the life they’d like to lead, and often times see nothing wrong with their behavior, which then unconsciously manifests itself in some form in their own life. They have nobody to say, “See this? Don’t do that.” Dawn and I are both parents and are a little older than the median age of most celeb bloggers, so we can bring some experience to the table that younger bloggers might not have yet. Not saying that we’re the moral compass, but perhaps we can give people something to actually think about instead of blindly following the next big thing.

Amy Winehouse, for example. Beautiful young woman, huge talent both in songwriting and singing. Multiple award winner including five Grammys. Throwing it all away on drugs. Goes out almost every night, coked up out of her mind, starting fights and punching people and acting stupid, in full view of the paparazzi which she knows are there. She doesn’t realize when she’s half-dressed or even half the time where she is. Yet, I continually get comments from people who are her so-called “fans” who tell me I should leave her alone, that she’s just misunderstood, that if I call for her to go to rehab I’m mean and nasty and I be hatin’. No…I just won’t love her to death. And for those who look up to her…is that really the type of person they want to be? Would they be so quick to excuse that behavior if it were a member of their family? (Perhaps so, and that’s scary.)

The butt-kissing thing…it just hit me wrong to compliment Dawn on one hand for her CoS coverage, and then compare her actions to the very people she’s protesting against. If I took it wrong, I apologize, that’s just how I saw it. Not an excuse, but rather a look at my thought process.

Well, anyway. I’m off on a tangent again. I’m sorry to come across like a jerk. I get a lot of comments telling me how terrible I am because I don’t buy the crap the PR machines want to shove down our throats. Most of the time, it’s water off a duck’s butt. But sometimes a comment just gets to me, and I feel compelled to respond. I hope we’ve reached some sort of closure to all this mess; it would make my day.

We’re not bad, we’re just drawn that way.

I agree with Dawn. That was beautifully written. Perhaps you can save that write up, or a more generalized version of it, for when other people with the same beefs as I had come around.

Much of what you told me is news to me. I had no idea about the background regarding Lohan, and knew very little about the background of the MJ-kids story. Had I known this background, I wouldn’t have been perturbed. So I concede in your favour in both of these cases. I also concede on your accusation of me holding pre-conceived notions. I never go to celeb sites and when I come here, I don’t really read many celeb articles. I come for Dawn’s Scientology posts. So when I read an article here and an article there on a site that says it’s about celeb gossip, considered in the light of how celeb watching is widely done and conceived of, the reaction was to view a number of posts as being nosy and uncivilized exploitation.

I don’t really blame myself for coming to the conclusions I came up with given how so many of the most well-known celeb-watchers really are in it primarily for opportunistic and rather immature and uncivil aims. But you were correct – I didn’t know you or the stories well enough, and I obviously did have a conception of the stories and the aims of the authors that was not accurate.

The Amy Winehouse story, I’m a bit more on the fence about as I don’t know the full background regarding her.

Also, once more on the accusation of kissing Dawn’s but. I don’t think I did that. I’m a person who gives compliments. I did and do think that she has done a lot of great work regarding CoS. On my site I have credited her as being one of the most productive and must-see/read/hear media activists against CoS. And yes, I have spoken well of her appearance. These were simply genuine compliments, though. Not but kissing.

Anyhow. I’ll say it again. It appears that I had you two and the site all wrong. I wish that this background info had been brought to my attention earlier. But of course, I’m sure you wish that I had known the background info before I went on attack-mode. And I imagine that typing out this sort of explanation to someone that you perceived as being an arrogant asshole probably wasn’t a high priority of yours.

Anyhow, for what it’s worth, apologies for my misinformed aggressiveness and insulting of your respective senses of decency toward others.

Ron

In recent days, I have noted, whatever he does, haters are taking it in wrong way and they are making impression on others as if MJ is not any more. This is wrong and must be stopped.

Long live MJ…

You are constantly referring to three specific articles I’ve done on this site. It makes me feel as if you have specific issues with those articles. Let’s break it down to what they truly are, instead of taking them just on face value, shall we?

You constantly chide us for the Lindsay flirting article. What you neglect to mention is that Lindsay was not just caught flirting at a party. She was caught practically on the lap of Joel Madden, “partner” of Nicole Richie and father to a baby. He’s been on record a zillion times telling how wonderful fatherhood is and how committed he is to Nicole…yet he allowed himself to be pulled into a situation where Lindsay was practically all over him. This wasn’t just a simple case of an innocent, or even not-so-innocent, flirtation between two available adults…this was two people who should never have let it go that far. Not saying it was all Lindsay’s fault or all Joel’s fault, because I’m sure there was enough blame to go around. But it certainly was not just a “Lindsay romantic moment” article.

Next, you continually reference the photo of Amy Winehouse, walking down a public street, with her low-rider jeans slung down just a bit too far. If it were just a wardrobe malfunction, I never would have said anything. After all, we all have had the occasional undone button or zipper at half-mast or hole in the crotch of our pants. But what you neglected to say is that this happened on a night where Amy was once again out on the town, roaming the streets of London, coked up out of her mind and looking for trouble. If you go downtown in any large, urban area, you’re going to see homeless drug addicts, wandering the streets, half-clothed and with various body parts on display. It isn’t because they don’t care what they look like, but because they’re so drugged out of their minds that they don’t realize what is going on…much like Amy.

And last, you got mad because I both expressed empathy for MJ’s kids while at the same time running a photograph of them. Let me explain my reasoning. For years now, MJ has not allowed his children to be photographed without some sort of camouflage…a blanket over their heads, masks on their faces, scarves or kerchiefs tied to cover half their features. The explanation offered was that he was afraid of kidnappers, but rumors ran rampant about the true reason, one of which was that they were not MJ’s kids after all. I ran the photo (the only one I am aware of on this site) because I wanted to show the world that these were normal, everyday, average children, not deformed or weird or ugly or physically unlike MJ. There is no mystery about these kids, because they are as normal as anyone else’s kids. While I’m not a huge fan of splashing photos of children on the ‘net, in this case using the photo seemed warranted.

Now, I think we all agree that the terrorazzi go way too far in their continual quest for the scoop, the perfect photo. I’ve said it, Dawn has said it, you have said it, many have said it. But there’s a huge difference between a stalker pap and a photographer from a news agency. These sorts of photographers have been following stars since there were famous people to follow. Yes, some paparazzi are probably much more aggressive now than they were in years past. But to say all are crossing the line is like saying all black people are gangstas. I have been involved “behind the scenes” with famous people, in my case in sports. I’ve seen the way people act when they get around famous people, and I’ve been complimented on my acting with tact and poise and respect for the people I was dealing with…because I treated them like people, not like idols.

Like it or not, the plain and simple fact is that there are people who look up to celebrities. They emulate what the celebs do, they buy what the celebs endorse, they go to movies and watch television shows featuring the celeb (thus enabling the celeb with their money). They will go to great lengths to excuse their favorite celeb’s behavior, even when that behavior is obviously bad or flawed. I’ve had I don’t know how many replies on here saying, “Everybody should leave [celeb] alone and let them live their life!” I say that letting a celeb live their life is one thing, while excusing their behavior (or worse, endorsing it) is another. I’m all for letting someone live their life in private, but I will not excuse a celeb’s behavior just because of their fame. I refuse to love a celeb to death, which is what so many are doing. And let’s face it…there are MANY celebs that we don’t write about, simply because they are not out in the public eye doing something stupid for the whole world to see.

People emulate what they see their favorite celeb do. The reasoning behind the Lindsay posting was to show people that for all the showbiz hype and whitewash her people were trying to put on her, her true self was coming out when she began a flirtation with a man who was in a (supposedly) committed relationship. Had it been Jane Doe down the street, I may have said it was none of my business…but this is an actress which many people look up to and who’s behavior is excused all the time. People continually say how wonderful she is, yet she’s coming on to a married man? Despite this, I was one of her staunchest supporters when she was in rehab, and I have called for her to re-enter rehab to help straighten herself out once again. Nobody is happier to see celebs straighten themselves out than me. I would love to see Lindsay truly conquer her demons and make something of her life.

Amy Winehouse? Once again, you have people who say she is just young and should be left alone to live her life. People say how wonderful she is and excuse her behavior. Yet, she’s continually going out, drugged up beyond recognition, not even realizing that her pants are falling off. Sometimes you need to slap people in the face with the truth before they’ll believe you. This is not a woman to idolize, this is a woman to pity. I’ve called again and again for someone to help her and get her off the drugs. When she managed to get it together for the Grammys, nobody was more excited than me, and consequently nobody was more disappointed than me when she started throwing it all away again. Yet people still don’t believe that she’s a drug addict, they just think she’s quirky and fun, so they excuse (and enable) her behavior…loving her to death.

MJ? I truly believe the man is a pedophile. But those children of his didn’t ask to be born into his world. For him to even bring children into his world was one of the biggest acts of selfishness I’ve ever seen, and then to act as he has with them (the scarves, the masks, etc) is nothing short of bizarre. I didn’t gratuitiously show photos for shock value or hits. I showed them because I wanted people to see that these were normal little kids, despite their father’s weirdness. Yes, I do feel sorry for them, but showing one photo of them (when I’ve had many chances to show others and did not) doesn’t cancel that out. Yes, I showed a photo of them…so what? I didn’t scribble little spit drools on them or say horrible things about them…in fact, I went out of my way to say nice things about them.

I can only assume you either haven’t read or have conveniently forgotten all the other articles Dawn and I have done on Amy and Lindsay, positive ones, ones where we have pointed out the good things in their lives. I guess you’ve overlooked the many times when we have called for help and intervention for a celeb who is experiencing problems in their life. Yes, when a celeb does something stupid, we call them out. When they do something good, we point that out too. When they need help, we call for it. We do it because there are so many people who want to do what celebs do. This is a celeb-worshipping society, and somebody has to point out the obvious. And who knows…maybe something we write can help someone realize the problems in their own life. Maybe they’ll recognize that they have a drug problem or that the affair with the married man is getting them nowhere in life, and that they need help. Maybe they’ll think that if this or that celeb can successfully turn themselves around, then they can too.

You find me a major celeb site where the articles take more than five minutes to write, including formatting and photographs. We don’t just churn out pulp and pablum for the masses. We don’t sit in our pretty pink gay palaces and rain down snark, along with stupid slobber doodles, on a celeb having a bad day. We don’t rush in like vultures, with clicking cameras and videotape, growing fat off other people’s misery. We take time to analyze the situation, look at what’s really happening, cut through the BS, and get to the real heart of the story.

And despite what you may think, we have many readers who DO recognize that the heart of what we do is social commentary. Ask William Kern of worldmeets.us, who is one of our biggest fans.

You can chastise us for talking about Lindsay flirting or Amy’s underwear or MJ’s kids, but you can’t truly do so without taking a look at the whole story, which you never do. You just take one little part of it and proceed to build your argument against us on that…you’re using selective morality to then judge us with, and it just doesn’t hold up.

Why not take another look at some of the articles Dawn has done on celebs and Scientology? They are truly in depth and insightful, and worthy of being included in any glossy mag anywhere. Why not take a look at some of the stuff I’ve done on the Hogans? They try to make themselves look like angels, and I show them for what they really are. Why not read the articles where we call for an intervention for the celeb drug addict or counseling for the suffering famous person? Or do those articles not fit into the preconceived notion of what you think we are? Why not take a look at the site as a whole, instead of picking and choosing a couple little snippets that don’t fit your idea of what we should be? What, you came to a celeb site and saw celeb news? The horrors! All that time you spent kissing Dawn’s butt about her Scientology articles, and you didn’t notice that she writes celeb news as well? It’s pretty sad that you’d spend all that time buttering her up about the CoS and then compare her writings to Fair Gaming.

Bottom line is that you can’t come here and tell us what you think we ought to do or not do. This is OUR site, and we will write about what WE like, regardless of your feelings on the matter. If you don’t believe me, that isn’t my fault. We don’t love celebs to death…in fact, we don’t treat them any differently than anyone else. We recognize that they are human beings, just like anyone else, and this is how we tell those who don’t realize that. How else can we tell people? This is our medium to get the message out that celebs are no better and no worse than you or I, and putting them on a pedestal and excusing their behavior just because they’re cute or sing well is actually a pretty foolish thing to do. Those who worship and emulate the bad behavior of celebs need to be told that the person they idolize is simply a human being, just like them. A favorite movie quote:

Eliza: He [Pickering] treats a flower girl as if she were a duchess.
Higgins: Well I treat a duchess as if she was a flower girl.
Eliza: Oh I see, the same for everybody.
Higgins: Yes so. You see, the great secret Eliza, is not the question of good manners or bad manners or any particular sort of manner, but having the same manner for all human souls. The question is not whether I treat you rudely, but whether you have ever heard me treat anyone else better.

In short, if you don’t like what we do, you’re free to feel that way, but otherwise buzz off. GlossLip isn’t going to change. We aren’t leaving it. You, however, can feel free to go, and don’t let the doorknob hit you on the way out.

Have a nice day.

So you care more about the speakers of ideas than the ideas themselves. That’s what we call ad hominem, and is one of the most well-known signs of argumentative weakness. If you cared about intellectual honesty and actually pursuing the most upstanding behaviour, then you would take my ideas seriously. You could call me a jerk for the way I delivered them – as that is how you took it – but you wouldn’t reject the ideas simply because someone you perceive to be an ass said them. Would the Golden Rule have been any worse of an idea if LRH had said it? No. It would have been the same idea, but spoken by an asshole.

Next. Y’know who else merely responding to rules rather than making them: nazis. Of course I’m not saying that you’re anything even approaching a nazi. But simply towing the party line rather than writing it yourself doesn’t make what you do any less questionable. Standing against societal poor practices can be difficult. For instance, it can be difficult to live outside of the capitalist system if you don’t like it because the very nature of property laws, currency and the nature by which capitalist markets spread their grasp can greatly limit one’s options. However, nothing even remotely close to this is stopping you from showing a bit more taste and civility in the stories you post. (And here it comes: “Hey Ron, why don’t you be more tasteful and civil in your comments?”. Well, one someone is going around seeking personal gratification under the lie of a warped social service from showing close-ups of celebrity pubes and invading on another celebrities private romantic affairs, the time for nonconfrontational pleasantries has passed.

This!

This is the last time I’ll respond to you, as you don’t get it and probably never will, and I don’t wish to encourage more long-winded postings from you.

As I said earlier, give it a rest already. Your self-righteousness has become tiresome.