Chinese Gymnasts Too Young To Compete, Web Documents Show
I didn’t need a commentator telling me that there was a question of age to realize, as I was watching the female gymnasts compete earlier in the Olympic games, that I was looking at girls who definitely were not sixteen years old. Look, I was a teenager once. I have a teenage daughter. I have kids who have teenage friends. Some of these girls in question are definitely not sixteen…but the problem has been that nobody can prove it. The Chinese have produced the girls’ passports and apparently that is all the IOC needs, because China has such a long history of being completely open and trustworthy:
Just last week, questions were raised about the ages of two of Yang’s teammates. The New York Times reported that online records listed the gymnasts, He Kexin and Jiang Yuyuan, as being too young for this Olympics, perhaps as young as 14.
A national registry of gymnasts, which had been blocked online but was viewable through Google cache, listed He’s birthday as Jan. 1, 1994. That date was also listed for her on a registration for an intercity competition in Chengdu, China.
Jiang was born on Oct. 1, 1993 and is not yet 15, according to a listing of junior competitors from the Zhejiang Province sports administration. The list of athletes included national identification card numbers into which birth dates are embedded. Chinese officials have produced passports showing that He and Jiang are 16, making them old enough to compete at the Games.
Well, the IOC may want to take a look at moar web documents recently found that show the age of some of these girls is definitely not sixteen:
Olympic gymnastics title contenders suddenly have one more thing to worry about other than the eight gold medals China claimed at the Tianjin World Cup last week. Her name is He Kexin.
The 14-year-old newcomer to the national team, who was recruited last year, has raised a lot of eyebrows recently after she broke two world records on the uneven bars in as many months. She will be just one more weapon on an already star-studded Chinese Olympic squad.
Yeah, so? Well, this article was posted on May 23, 2008. Yep, this year. Ineligible to compete in Olympic gymnastics. And worse, China has “cleaned up” the article to now read that she is sixteen years old.
Plus, in a translated page (from the original Chinese), an article from November 2007 says she is thirteen years old, which means she turned fourteen sometime between November of 2007 and May of 2008, making her fourteen years old as of now.
You can see the full article with other photos here. There’s this great thing called the World Wide Internet Computer Web, and the IOC and FIG might want to join the twentieth century and use some updated methods to fact-check. A bunch of bloggers (including our own Dawn, who did a write-up on this very scandal earlier) found the information that the IOC and the FIG can’t seem to locate.
The question of age was raised before the Olympics even began, giving anyone in charge plenty of time to act:
Yang Yilin, a top contender for gold in the all-around and the uneven bars, could be 14 instead of the minimum age of 16, The Associated Press reported Sunday.
She is the third of six Olympians on the Chinese women’s gymnastics team whose age has been questioned in the lead-up to these Olympics.
Registration lists from 2003 to 2006, previously posted on the Web site of the General Administration of Sport of China, said Yang was born on Aug. 26, 1993, which means she will turn 15 later this month. Gymnasts must turn 16 during the year of the Olympics to be eligible to compete in the Games.
On the 2007 registration list, Yang’s birthday changed to Aug. 26, 1992, suddenly making her old enough for the Olympics, The A.P. said.
Chinese gymnastics officials have not yet addressed the question of Yang’s age. Jacques Rogge, the president of the International Olympic Committee, said in a news conference Saturday that age eligibility was not an I.O.C. issue, and that the International Gymnastics Federation, known by the acronym F.I.G., is in charge of making sure gymnasts are old enough to compete.
But perhaps more controversial than an underage, ineligible competitor is the news that China may, in fact, be stunting the growth of their gymnasts to make them smaller, lighter, and more limber:
A 2005 book called Operation Yao Ming suggested that Chinese sporting authorities may be engaging in borderline-eugenic practices; it is no harder in principle to select the very young, and even informally “breed”, for small size than it is for superhuman height. And once you’ve got your candidates, it is frankly far easier to stunt their growth than it is to hasten it. [...]
[...] The whole reason for age limits in gymnastics is that smaller performers are inherently capable of more difficult flips, flexes, and flimflamadoos than larger ones; their centre of mass is less far from the physical centre of their bodies, allowing them to achieve a higher rate of rotation in gymnastic manoeuvres.
But this shouldn’t be surprising when you take into account China’s history. They are about the collective, about national unity superceding individual feelings. It doesn’t matter if you’re tired, injured, hungry, lonely, parentally deprived, or underage, you drag your behind out there and tumble for the pride of your country, and God help you if you don’t. A fine attitude for the military, perhaps (taking out the underage part), but hardly conducive to the emotions of young children.
I realize that gymnastics creates athletic girls who, if they rigorously train, can be smaller and leaner and even less developed than their peers, but you can’t hide bone structure and baby teeth. There are certain characteristics to the bone structure of children, preteens, teens, and adults, and no amount of passport tampering can change that. Yes, the Chinese gymnasts outperformed our girls (albeit with a few questionable calls). This isn’t a case of USA sour grapes. This is a case of wanting peers to compete against peers and following the set rules of the competiton, and when you have children competing who are ineligible because of age then that is clearly against the rules, regardless of talent or skill.
So should China give their gold medal back? Will there be another Olympic scandal on the level of Salé and Pelletier? Thus far, it doesn’t seem like the IOC is going to do much of anything. Way to cheapen the Olympic spirit.
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Thanks! I’m glad someone agrees with me on this issue.
Comment by Damon — August 18, 2008 @ 11:43 am
Great information. They should make China give back the gold. I cant believe that they take the girls from their home when they are three and then don’t let them see their mothers. Thats terrible. In my opinion, they should be disqualified for child abuse!!!
anyway, thanks for agreeing with me!
Comment by Anna — August 18, 2008 @ 12:02 pm
I suppose the United States is the paragon of virtue in this respect? Have any of you actually seen young Asian girls? And I mean Asian girls who go to school and live in Asia and eat Asian food! Perhaps you should take a trip outside your country and get a clue! I’m Filipino by the way, so don’t get started on how all of us in Asia support China. We don’t!
Comment by Eduard Guerzo — August 18, 2008 @ 2:04 pm
At Eduard Guerzo, my girlfriend grew up in Taiwan and these gymnast in question look a lot younger than 16 to her. Besides how young they look, official documents have been found which state they are 14, not 16. So, they were either cheating when they competed at 14 or they are cheating now at 16.
Comment by Rick — August 18, 2008 @ 3:22 pm
#3:
First of all, don’t get upset at a comment I never made (about Asians supporting Asians). Didn’t say it, didn’t imply it.
And next, I do understand that a Chinese person in China growing up on Chinese food and training as a gymnast from a young age is probably going to have a stunted body growth. But AS I SAID in the article (which you obviously didn’t read too closely), I pointed out that you cannot hide certain characteristics of children, teens, and adults.
And thanks for the informed comments on where I have traveled, since you’ve obviously stowed away in my suitcases and know exactly where I have and have not been.
Comment by k — August 18, 2008 @ 4:15 pm
OK, I agree that they are underaged but i do have to say something else….one they SHOULD not have to give their medals back! They won them and even if they cheated about their age nobody caught them until now. I have been to China twice, infact i was adopted from the Sichiuan province. A lot of the girls there don’t look like they are the real age the look younger. Anna, you don’t know everything! They were not “taken” away from their mothers. They were sent away BY their mothers, or the kid WANTED to go. So there!
Comment by Kate — August 18, 2008 @ 4:59 pm
I think if these girls are underage then they should be made to give the medals back. Why should they get away with it?!! What is that teaching the rest of our children that its ok to lie and cheat!!!
Comment by Leanne — August 18, 2008 @ 5:33 pm
what three year old decides they WANT to go away from their family for years, oh and the whole they either cheated in previous meets or are cheating now is a really good point, if they aren’t stripped of their olympic medals than they should be stripped of their previous medals in meets before the olympics
Comment by lauren — August 18, 2008 @ 8:11 pm
and it doesnt matter when you’re caught cheating, it’s still wrong
Comment by lauren — August 18, 2008 @ 8:12 pm
This age controversy was only stirred up by some US media because of jealousy and ignorance. The so-called “evidence” questioning their age was just some screen shots of a few faulty government web sites. It’s so convenient to denounce Chinese government media at one time, then treated it as more authoritative at another. Those posted age information was just the mistakes made by some lazy or careless Chinese reporters. More Chinese web sites reported correct age information, which were conveniently ignored by the US media. An old time-stamped video circulated on Chinese web sites clearly showed that those girls were recruited when China was awarded Olympics and it mentioned they would be 16 years old in 2008. BTW, many Chinese girls do look very young comparing to Westerners, and some even appear younger than most other Chinese girls. If you don’t know that, you have not seen enough. There are Chinese girls in their 20s look like 12-year-old to even Chinese.
Comment by Tony Su — August 18, 2008 @ 8:28 pm
#6: Oh, okay. It’s okay to cheat as long as they find out AFTER the fact. Gotcha.
And people do know what goes on in China, despite the best efforts of the Chinese government to keep to themselves. No three-year-old can make a decision to be taken from their parents. So just as those of us born in America can love America yet still acknowledge that we have faults (which do sometimes include cheating), the Chinese need to realize that you can love your country yet still acknowledge its faults.
#10: It wasn’t some “faulty” reporting. It was their age, as reported on China’s own registration list…which suddenly changed when they needed to be a certain age to be eligible. The websites reporting supposedly “correct” info probably just got the memo sooner. And yes…there are Chinese children (and children of other cultures) which appear younger than they are, but again there are certain characteristics which are unique to children, pre-teens, teens, and adults, and those can’t be hidden, no matter how young they appear.
People need to stop making excuses and realize that China cheated and got caught by a bunch of bloggers. The medals need to be returned.
Comment by k — August 18, 2008 @ 9:40 pm
Ok so what i want to know is that we all know how China runs its country and why on earth did we actually decide to hold the olympics there in the first place. This is rediculous! I can’t believe that they wouldn’t disqualify them!
Comment by d — August 18, 2008 @ 11:32 pm
“…they SHOULD not have to give their medals back! They won them and even if they cheated about their age nobody caught them until now.”
Google Ben Johnson and Marian Jones. They won medals, but did so by cheating and as thus were stripped of them. Jones’s medals were stripped 7 years after she won them too.
Even if these girls are proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be underage, and the IOC grows some balls and disqualifies them, it’s doubtful the medals would ever be returned. It’s always sad when governments get in the way of clean and honest competition. And our own government is guilty as well — remember the 1980 boycott of the Moscow Olympics?
Comment by Vanessa — August 18, 2008 @ 11:35 pm
I live in Japan, so when I heard that the Chinese team had questionable contenders, I thought “Meh, 16-year-old Japanese girls can be pretty small sometimes.” But then I saw some of the photos of the smaller girls. I really hate admitting it, but no, some of those girls really do not look 16. Not all, I think there are only two that I just refuse to believe will be 16 as of the end of this year.
I don’t think they should have their medals stripped because they did compete, and they did do well, and they are young and just doing what they are told. But China? I think the nation should be punished by not being allowed to hold an Olympics competition for another fifty years. I think that would hurt their pride and their tourism more than disqualifying those girls.
And China used to be so cool (according to my high school medieval history text books). Now it’s associated with words like “lies”, “sneaky”, “cheating”, and “oppression”.
Comment by Brooke — August 18, 2008 @ 11:42 pm
They are probably Chinese Nationalist who are out to ruin the Olympics. I guess they accomplished their mission.
Comment by Joe — August 18, 2008 @ 11:47 pm
Proof !! Proof !! Proof!!
BIG CHEAT IS AN AMERICAN HERO
[quote]
Dr Exum, the former USOC
director for drug control from 1991 to 2000, released more than 30,000 pages of documents to Sports Illustrated. They confirm widespread suspicion of the
USOC drug-testing system before it was moved to an independent body, the US Anti Doping Agency, after the Sydney Olympics.
The Herald reported last year that a US athlete tested positive to steroids in 1999 but was allowed to compete – and win an Olympic gold medal – in the 2000 Sydney Games. US officials still refuse to divulge the name of the athlete, or those of 13 other athletes who had failed drug tests around the same time, citing privacy laws.
[quote]
Comment by Marion Jones — August 18, 2008 @ 11:52 pm
Stop complaining. So what if they are underaged? It does not change the fact that they outperformed the other countries in the olympics. And don’t give me any of that younger kids are better for gymnastics BS. It’s not like they were using steroids or some other kind of illegal drug. Why can’t people accept the fact that one country beat another? All the athletes worked very hard for these olympic games. These Chinese gymnasts are deserving of their gold medals and they trained and performed fair and square. I could care less of a persons age if they could do some of the amazing things these athletes did. Move on, get over it and enjoy the rest of the olympics.
Comment by j — August 18, 2008 @ 11:53 pm
Let’s just forget about nationalities or ages and let’s talk straight facts for a minunte.
#1) Both girls tie scores with same level of difficulty
#2) BIG FACTOR HERE … one girl faltered on her landing one girl did not
So without bringing race or age into this whole debate … who should win when the same level of difficulty and tie score takes place??
I think we all know the answer to that question. So now I say …
AMERICA SHOULD HAVE WON THE GOLD PERIOD
Comment by Stephanie — August 19, 2008 @ 12:02 am
#17: Nobody is disputing that they did work hard for their medals (and what’s a tenth of a point or two added or taken away perhaps unfairly…but that’s a different post) and nobody is disputing that the American team did make mistakes that hurt us in the medals chase. No matter what anyone thinks, this isn’t a case of sour grapes.
You see, RULES are there for a REASON. On my son’s football team, we have a player who is ineligible to play the first two games because of questions about when he moved to our district. He’s a great player, but the RULES say that he can’t play before a certain date. If he does play, we would have to forfeit those games, EVEN IF WE WON. We had a senior this year who could not play because he would be too old. We would have to forfeit any game he played in. We have to abide by the rules whether we agree or disagree. Why? Because them’s the rules, and if we want to play we have to follow them.
Agreeing or disagreeing with the rules isn’t the issue. You FOLLOW the rules whether you agree with them or not. I would say the same thing if it were an American gymnast caught breaking the rules. I did say the same thing when it all hit the fan about Marion Jones.
People who continue to excuse this flagrant breaking of the rules really frighten me. It makes me wonder what else they are willing to overlook.
Comment by k — August 19, 2008 @ 12:11 am
Directed to Stephanie: You are referring to the individual competition of the uneven bars finals. I was simply referring to the olympics in general.
On a separate note, yes the two did tie in score. But the commentators clearly explained the scoring system of the event. According to the scoring system, that the athletes were well aware of before the competition, the Chinese athlete did fairly earn the first place position.
Comment by j — August 19, 2008 @ 12:12 am
the Olympics has long had cheaters, the Olympics has also had a long tradition of trying to eliminate them. but in the end they usually do not succeed. now they are given the chance to prove to the world that while we do not catch everyone, when we do, we will not accept it, they should be stripped of their medals. the fact is they are two young, the fact is they cheated and the fact is that Olympic committee members are doing nothing. this ruins the gymnastics part of the Olympics for me because it is not fair.
by the way, we have plenty of things to test the age of everything, test the girls.
Comment by Helen — August 19, 2008 @ 12:25 am
#18 I agree, America should have won that gold medal. Both the bronze medalist and the silver medalist did a better job in their performance than the gold medalist. I think the same three girls should have medaled but not in the order that they did. The Gold should have went to America who got 2nd, the silver should have went to china but the girl who had got 3rd and then bronze should have went to the china girl who got gold. It is wrong if they are underage and they are cheating but that isn’t the only questionable activity going on in Beijing. Like the only murder has been of an American.
Comment by Seven — August 19, 2008 @ 12:30 am
Has history not taught us that rules are meant to be broken? We would not even be the United States of America if we did not break Britain’s rules. Many rules, even laws limit peoples freedom all around the world. Does that make those rules and laws just? This is just to a smaller degree.
Comment by j — August 19, 2008 @ 12:32 am
Where are the birth certificates? Where are the medical records? That will answer this problem once and for all. Did they change their names or doctor their birth certificates? Show us the documents!
Comment by csp — August 19, 2008 @ 1:18 am
[...] post info By jg210 Categories: Uncategorized [...]
Pingback by Chinese Gymnasts Too Young To Compete, Web Documents Show « Jg Graphic’s Weblog — August 19, 2008 @ 1:23 am
Chances are the Chinese cheated and these girls are underage. The only reason it’s such a huge deal is because the Olympics happen to be in China, SURPRISE!! But, all this investigating and junk is pretty much useless. No matter what we say about articles written in the past, it is still not enough, unfortunately the only thing that can prove the Chinese cheated is documentation such as birth certificates and passports from the CHINESE GOVERNMENT…so again, as much as i hate cheating, its pointless to even fight it, its not going to be reversed. Even though we aren’t leading in golds, we are still kicking ass in total medals, without having to cheat, and thats all that matters.
Comment by I — August 19, 2008 @ 1:24 am
Oh, I see #20. You would feel much more comfortable, perhaps, if a few more foreigners were murdered by a random person? Would you feel as though America is being less targeted if a few Romanians or Greeks were stabbed around a bit?
Comment by Lily — August 19, 2008 @ 1:31 am
Aww, oops. I meant #22. My bad
Comment by Lily — August 19, 2008 @ 1:32 am
#27 No I wasn’t saying that I want other people to get murdered. I was just saying that the age issue isn’t the only problem with this Olympics.
Comment by Seven — August 19, 2008 @ 1:49 am
As a gymnast:
Yes I think they screwed up, in that they cheated. BUT I also think the age rule is stupid. Russian athletes train away from home. So do Romanian athletes. Our way of doing it is not the norm.
Fun fact: Bela Karyoli STARTED the practice of age fakery. He is just mad he can’t get away with it now.
It isn’t the athletes’ fault that their government cheated. They are just doing their job–namely clean routines. Don’t punish them for what the adults did, but instead sanction the nation in the future.
Comment by Kassi — August 19, 2008 @ 2:26 am
The medals will most likely be removed until after the Olympics to avoid a political and PR mess. So, let the cheating Chinese have their moment and then take them back later. No one would dare strip the Chinese of a medal before the Olympics end. If the evidence exists the medals will be removed after the show ends and the Chinese receive their tourist money. This issue will all come down to the money and how to avoid a situation that might negatively effect revenue.
Comment by J N — August 19, 2008 @ 2:55 am
Yes I understand that everyone says the the Olympics has a long history of athletes who cheat, but does that mean we need to support them. As someone else stated younger athletes have a different body type giving them an unfair advantage. So you don’t want the Chinese to have their metals taken away, but what about the other athletes their dreams were taken away also. The way I see it is if you cheat you should feel the pain, even if it is because your government tells you to. The Olympic committee had ti institute drug testing perhaps now they need to add age testing as well.
Comment by Pamela Impson — August 19, 2008 @ 3:02 am
I think this is a matter of not wanting to insult the host country of the Olympics. Everyone is just too scared!
These girls have no choice in the matter. They are told what they have to do and they do it. Even if that means lying about their age. They are good gymnasts and they will still be good gymnasts in 2012. Why not just wait 4 more years? The Chinese want to win and they want to win on their home soil. They will stop at nothing.
The Americans were cheated out of numerous medals that belong to them, mainly Nastia Lukin and Alicia Sacramone. How does a girl fall and still medal? If you ask me the judging choices also need to be in question as well.
But I do give the American gymnasts a lot of credit for how classy they have acted throughout this frustrating situation.
Comment by MJS — August 19, 2008 @ 9:09 am
I am a big gymnastic fan, and I think it’s horrible what they have done to the sport. For those of you that think it’s right to have children in the sport are sick and have something mentally wrong with you. It states that the minimum age is sixteen. the chinese cheated. Plus the chinese had many faults in there routines but were alwyas given better scores. That is a crock of shit and you all know it. When the u.s. girls competed they were great but never got the scores they should have. And by the way I’m a gymnastic coach.
Comment by r w — August 19, 2008 @ 11:23 am
I was awe struck when I read about the little china girls lying about their ages, then to see her win the GOLD last night! This is my favorite, the uneven bars and I set my alarm clock for 1am to specifically watch. Regardless, I thinkIt’s total crap that it has not been investigated further, but agree that it WILL happen when the spotlight is off the Olympics being in Bejiing. If the RULES say, you have to be 16, than it should be abided by. The same RULES were also in place when the girls tied, for obvious reasons, for a tie breaker. If it werent for those RULES, the American would have won, she just ded a MUCH better job.PERIOD! SO lets just say, its ok for you to be under 16, and break the rules, then break the rules then for the tie breaker and give it to the girl who deserved it, the AM
merican!!
Comment by Amanda — August 19, 2008 @ 12:24 pm
As a proud citizen of the US…
I have a problem with a country breaking the rules of the Olympics just to win a few gold metals. Makes no difference to me which country. I don’t feel that the kids need to give up their gold medals since they did earn them. However since China is behind having underage athletes compete and trying to cover it up, China should be punished, not the athletes. As with any country caught breaking the rules.
What they should do is for the next 10 years is make it where China can’t compete in the events that they broke the rules. Make that a simple standing rule that any country caught breaking the rules will be ineligible to compete in that event for 10 years.
Harsh punishment? I don’t think so considering that the Olympics is a major world wide event that should be respected by all countries and athletes. Since it represents as much as it does, the penalties for dishonest practices should be rather stiff.
Just my 2 cents worth…
Comment by Michael D. Kirkpatrick — August 19, 2008 @ 3:10 pm
I find it rather insulting that just nine months before the Beijing Olympics, the Chinese government’s news agency, Xinhua, reported that gymnast He Kexin was 13. This would have made her ineligible to be on the team that won a gold medal.
This appears to be a lack of foresight on the part of the Chinese government. Now it has come back to haunt them.
The fact of the matter is that there are documents out there with conflicting dates and ages.
At the very least, there should be an investigation.
If the Fédération Internationale de Gymnastique
and the International Olympic Committee want to salvage any shred of credibility, they should at least feign true concern.
If you are even the slightest bit concerned, then you should email the FIG and demand that they look into the matter.
Do it now or forever hold your peace!
If enough people (globally) demand action, then something will be done. China should feel confident that with the investigation, they should at least be able to silence any doubters with credible evidence.
Email the FIG now:
info@fig-gymnastics.org
Comment by Concerned Olympic viewer — August 19, 2008 @ 3:29 pm
Now now, we’re supposed to be kissing China’s ass…since they’re such a great bunch for hosting the oLyMpIcS.
Please ignore that pile of bodies over there…
Comment by Laura Busch — August 19, 2008 @ 3:47 pm
Isn’t there any way to send this to the F.I.G? I mean really, a five year old could tell they aren’t 16, even if they did stop their growth.
Comment by Jared — August 19, 2008 @ 5:52 pm
To those that are saying it does not matter that the Chinese girls are underage and they still beat the Americans, please think of the fact that the USA has had gymnasts at the level to compete in the Olympics and they were not able to go because of their age; example, Nastia Liukin four years ago she could have competed at the Olympics and did not because her age (14) did not qualify her -now think, is this really fair to all those gymnasts out there, underage, who did not qualify because of this rule? Fair should be fair-all around. You cheat, you pay. USA deserves the GOLD!!!! Those girls are Queens without their crown!
Comment by Nena — August 19, 2008 @ 6:29 pm
listen up on the age limit.
if they can win even at 7 let em do it.
they let the 40 year olds compete in other events.
get a grip people
let the best win
Comment by JEB — August 19, 2008 @ 11:49 pm
Spare me. They let 14 year olds compete in Figure Skating. Why not Gymnastics? Apply one universal standard to everyone. If 14 is too young for Gymnastics, it’s too young for Figure Skating too.
Comment by Rachel — August 20, 2008 @ 2:00 am
Funny that half of you didn’t mind when Paul Hamm won a gold on an error, but want the Chinese girls to give their medals back. Hypocrisy, anyone? Stop being so predictable. Americans will back Americans hypocritically, and Chinese will back Chinese hypocritically. You’re both blindly nationalistic and willing to overlook rules if they benefit you. Look in the mirror before you throw stones.
Comment by Bob — August 20, 2008 @ 2:03 am
Who mentioned Paul Hamm? Where did that come from?
And he won because of a mistake in scoring, not because of blatant out and out cheating and a coverup. Neither he nor the other gymnast cheated, it was scoring.
Go throw stones at yourself, I say the truth.
Comment by k — August 20, 2008 @ 2:15 am
Personally, I believe that 14 is too young for figure skating, gymnastics, diving, table tennis, whatever. One’s body may be more flexible and limber, but it’s the emotions and mental state of these children that I worry about. I personally don’t think even 16 y/os should compete. I think they should be 18 or above to compete at this level. But that’s my opinion.
Oksana Baiul, anyone?
Comment by k — August 20, 2008 @ 2:18 am
as a Chinese with a clear sense of fairness
well, i’ve read the article and all the comments, my points are as follows
1. the scoring itself is no problem, HE kexin won the game by her perfect perfomance, so those who have doubts should check the scoring system yourselves.
2. as for the age issue. to tell the truth, i can’t figure it out, either. some of the girls do look smaller and younger than most Asian girls of the same age, not to mention girls of your place. then i guess maybe that’s because the coathes chose such type of girls purposely in the first place. however, i can’t 100% deny the existance of “age cheating”. honestly, i’m puzzled, since there is no official documents that we can check. but i really look forward to the turth, as strongly as you guys.
3. no offence, but will you stick on the age issue that seriously if it was not for Chinese “stealing” victory from Americans?
Comment by BambooJ — August 20, 2008 @ 4:33 am
Asian people look much younger than Europeans and Americans with the same age. Normally, an American girl’s physical development is 1~2 years earlier than Asian girls. Hence, an American girl at the age of 16 may be taken as 18 judging by Asian people. It is not surprise Asian audiance think that the actress of Jenny in <> is 20 years old, the real age of whom is 14！So, is it not easy for Americans to misjudge the age of an Asian girl?
Comment by viking — August 20, 2008 @ 8:42 am
I believe we are getting off track.
The issue is not how old they look (although, again, there are certain characteristics of age that CANNOT be hidden no matter how “young” or “old” a person looks). The issue is that China’s STATE RUN news has said these girls were one age, and then suddenly cleaned up the articles to say they are a different age. The birth certificates and passports are questionable.
The rules are that an athlete MUST BE 16 in an Olympic year. By fiddling with papers and documents, the Chinese are trying to pass off gymnasts who are younger than the age the rules state.
It doesn’t matter if you agree or disagree with the rules…they are the rules and if you want to play you FOLLOW THE RULES. Plain and simple. That’s what this is about, not whether or not an Asian gymnast looks younger than an American gymnast.
Something is wrong here and people do not want to admit it because it’s China, and God help us if they are offended in some way.
Comment by k — August 20, 2008 @ 3:47 pm
1.Chinese state run news agency and website (some of the websites weren’t even official, such as Sina) can do no typographical mistakes. Wth does that come from? I thought reports published by state run news agency were not even considered credible in the last 59 years or so? Can anyone guarantee that I can’t find typos at the US government website? Anyone?
2.”A webpage takes precedence over government-issued identification.” I think you should discuss this matter with a lawyer or a judge. (DON’T tell me you don’t accept Chinese official documents since birth certificate and medical records are also official documents.)
Comment by james — August 20, 2008 @ 5:55 pm
OLYMPIC ATHLETE’S OATH
“In the name of all competitors I promise that we shall take part in these Olympic Games, respecting and abiding by the rules which govern them, committing ourselves to a sport without doping and without drugs, in the true spirit of sportsmanship, for the glory of sport and the honour of our teams.”
Enough said.
Comment by Mitsu Too — August 20, 2008 @ 6:29 pm
For those people who think this is just because some people are upset that China is “beating” America, it’s not. This issue was brought up before the games even started and there has been questions before the Chinese girl won the gold over the American in the uneven bars.
Comment by Seven — August 21, 2008 @ 2:20 am
I told my wife before these games even got started, that the USA would not do well in any of the games that were to be judged. Now I see I was right.
Comment by Dave — August 21, 2008 @ 2:40 am
I knew China would win alot of metals in any sport that would be judged, thats the only way they could have as many golds as they do. There were alot of other countries that should have scored higher, but China would some how come out on top. The only chance China had to lead in the gold metals standings is to have the Olympics in China.
Comment by Dave — August 21, 2008 @ 3:05 am
I don’t understand by the age becomes a big issue..let the bygones be the bygones…
What I can see here is the Americans are jealous over the Chinese and yes no doubt the age issue was brought up way before the Olympic starts but then again…this was obviously that the Americans knew very much from the beginning that the Chinese would definitely be the threat to Americans clinching the top spot.
Yes I did agree that Nastia is mesmerized with her strong choregraphy and poised while Shawn was quite clean with her routines. However, the chinese girls were on par with both and technically they are stronger with accurate executions. After all it was just a Team Gold, why fussed around so much…and the Americans had clinched 2 golds coupled with several silvers… so just shut up and close the chapter.
Comment by Sam — August 21, 2008 @ 1:31 pm
Even though these girl won by cheating or not… They were allowed to do so by their country! SO if any evidence is found to be true by the IOC shouldn’t the country of China be punished??? Maybe a ban from participation in the next olympics should be in line for China… These girls probably did not choose to lie about their ages and the people putting them in this position did! Let the adults in charge suffer not the children. After all they are just children!
Comment by Z — August 21, 2008 @ 3:11 pm
Here’s a cruncher. Why did these young people even have passports, have they travelled abroad? They aren’t due to in the near future, you can bet they aren’t allowed to keep the books themselves and the only stamps in them (if any) will be for dodgy tin pot countries like Sudan or Zimbabwe.
Also, you can pretty much guarantee that a vast majority of comments on this site and others that try to talk down the situation, are posted by “Fenching” (Chinese extreme nationalists) many of whom are actually paid per post to deflect critical comments about anything China.
One look at the pictures of those little children standing next to the Americans, or even Chinese of the same age is enough to confirm that they are outside the rules.
There’s no way anyone in China can claim that foreigners humiliated their country this time. They’ve done it themselves and the loss of “MIANZI” face, is going to make their hurdler’s pull out, look like a few seconds in front of a mirror with tweezers to remove a rebel blackhead.
Go Go USA!! (and i’ve never been there)
Comment by Checkdis — August 21, 2008 @ 5:55 pm
Okay, they obviously are younger, but what about the judging? Everyone is looking at the age but nobody seems to care that the Chinesse girls fell on their routines and still got high scores and medals. I can accept the age but the unfair judging is outrageous!! The only question i ask is….How in the world did they mess up that many times and that badly (dropping and not sticking it) and still recieve medals???
Comment by Sara C — August 21, 2008 @ 9:04 pm
I have mentioned it a couple of times. It IS outrageous that the routines in question were scored higher than they should have been, due to technical mistakes (even the on-air commentators said so). Personally, I think that this is another indicator of their young age…they do not have the extra year or two of national/international competition that the older girls have on other teams. Sticking it in practice and sticking it while the entire world is watching (not to mention your country, where it is shameful to fail) are two different things.
On the routines they did very well in, they were scored well. On the routines that were questionable, they still scored better than they should have. The other teams (including the USA) had harsher penalties taken off for smaller mistakes…although we did have a few biggies that, by themselves, impacted the points. Could the USA have won gold had there not been an obvious inability on the judges part to properly judge (it was suggested that some of the judges were inexperienced)? Could any of the other teams there won gold? Maybe. But all that is asked is that ALL competitors be subject to the same rules.
Everybody is too afraid of “offending” the Chinese. I hope they enjoy these games because this will be the last time they ever host them.
Comment by k — August 21, 2008 @ 9:15 pm
ok 1st of all. its called the Olympic GAMES!they are games! the winners do get to control anything. it just proves who has the time and money to train for the games. if they girls are too young then fine take away the medals they won. because they broke the rules. that is if they can prove it (They as in the Olympic Committee) 2nd of all i saw someone commented on the landing…([post 18) ok thats actually not big. its a 10th of a point on the new scoring system. and it came down to math on the scores. they are the judges for a reason. because they know what they are doing. let the officials handle it.
you know if so many Americans care more about something actually important like eco-friendly energy or the “war” in iraq or even in Georgia. then the world would be better. instead we have Americans (im American as well) sitting on there pc and yelling at there TV. did you know more people voted in American idol then the presidential vote?
Wake up people!!!!
Comment by Joey — August 22, 2008 @ 7:22 am
Hi, Joey. k here. I just wanted to be the first to welcome you to GlossLip. And, in case you overlooked the title bar, please allow me to explain just what this site is about.
CELEBRITY NEWS.
Yep.
If you want hard-hitting news coverage about the war in Iraq or the Presidental election, I hear CNN has a website. Not sure if you’ve heard about it yet. You can visit it and read and leave comments and everything! Kewl!
Comment by k — August 22, 2008 @ 11:04 am
AGAIN there is controversy for China involving a little girl at the Olympic Games. If the Chinese were perfectly willing to misrepresent to the world as “live” the lip-syncing performance of one little girl for something as innocuous as the singing of their national anthem at the opening ceremonies, can there be even the slightest doubt that they would do the same with another little girl in order to win Olympic gold?
Comment by Suzanne — August 22, 2008 @ 12:07 pm
Thanks for welcoming me K. i do know this is a site about CELEBRITY NEWS. that is actually why i posted here. you see the people who are actually talking about the election or the war in Iraq are at CNN. so i did not need for my comment to be directed to them. it was intended for people who currently are not thinking or talking about “important” things such a war and energy problems. i was just suggesting that if people would use more of there time and energy towards our future and not about CELEBRITY NEWS, things might actually change. but now i am off topic on the situation.
back to the China situation. (that you apparently overlooked in my perilous post) i do think that is not possible to prove. people can say typo in news and it is possible for china to fake documents. all we can do is wait for there decision. but i am going to guess and say that the OC (Olympic Committee) will say there is insufficient proof and will allow them to keep there medals. if indeed the girls did lie. then that weight will be on them for the rest of there life. some day the truth will come out. but i don’t think that will be some day soon.
Comment by Joey — August 22, 2008 @ 11:04 pm
All I’m saying is that it’s pretty rich to come to a celeb blog and complain that people aren’t taking real news seriously enough. What’s to say that when people leave here, they don’t go to CNN or MSNBC or the NYT or wherever else they choose to get their serious news from? How do you know that the people who vote for AI (not me, not for years anyway) don’t vote for our President? How do you know that people who see the inconsistencies here don’t also worry about Iraq or gas prices or the election?
China. There are certain tracks on the internet that can’t be hidden. Sure, they can claim that it was a typo…on several different news sites and in more than one official database. Same typo each time…but it sure was a typo, nothing else. They’ll wriggle free somehow, I’m certain of it. It’s like the weapon found by the murder victim, with the suspect’s fingerprints, footprints of the suspect’s shoes leading to the suspect’s house, and a receipt showing the suspect bought the gun and the bullets…but you can’t put the gun in the suspect’s hand. So it gets thrown out.
Comment by k — August 23, 2008 @ 12:43 am
what the report said was ‘inauthoritative evidence’
Comment by keepsi — August 23, 2008 @ 12:09 pm
Anyone, no matter what nation they are from, should have their medals revoked for ANY form of not following the official rules, even if they knew they were guilty of it or not. How well would it have went if any other nation had 14 year olds competing that may have won gold? Ever heard this: “Ignorance of the law is no excuse.”
So if anyone anywhere didn’t know if it was ok or not to shoot someone they shouldn’t be punished but whoever in charge should be?
Comment by Dan — August 23, 2008 @ 6:52 pm
I read several of these comments and as a former gymnast I must state many things. I agree with many of the comments other individuals have made. The Chinese girls are not at fault, as someone said previously if they were told to compete, they compete, God knows what would happened to them if they refuse, so if the medals would be taken away I would feel horrible for the girls, because they did what they were told. Also the girls ARE TAKEN, as stated, “they take girls at a young age and if any show any special skills such as flexiblity they will be kept.” And also some do beg to stay, so both are right. I hate to say it, but if they are too young, they did break the rules and unfortunately something must be done. Look as Andrea Raducan, her medal was stripped because she took cough medicine given by her coach that contained a drug she was unaware of. The point is if you cheat something much be done. I, for one, do not think there should be an age rule. What’s the reasoning, becuase they don’t want the girls to go through pressure, most of those girls are senior elites at a young age and go through that sort of pressure, if they can do the skills let them compete, why make them wait four more years when they can do it now. Look at Dominque Moceanu, she was 14, before the age change, and she handeled it well. Thats just my opinion. The head Chinese coach said if his team did not win 5 Gold Medals he would jump out of the tallest building…they were under tremendous pressure…that is why they would do anything to win. I do not blame the girls…I blame their government, and its a hard situation, because the people who would be punished the most are the girls…for osmething they had no control over and worked so hard for….its a very tough situation.
Comment by Erin — August 25, 2008 @ 12:00 am