Scientology Spokesperson Tommy Davis In The Hotseat, Admits Xenu Story
As we broke here last week, Scientology spokesperson (and son of actress Anne Archer) Tommy Davis was confronted about several issues surrounding the controversial religion by ABC affiliate reporter Nathan Baca. The 45 minute interview took place at the Scientology Celebrity Center in Hollywood, and only after Davis and select Sea Org members “asked” (read: insisted) Baca to sit through over an hour’s worth of Scientology propaganda videos, including an anti-Anonymous video. It was only then, that Davis agreed to be interviewed by Baca. You can read Nathan’s full report of how the interview was secured here.
What’s most interesting from my perspective is how prepared Baca is in forcing Tommy Davis to actually ANSWER his questions. Davis and Scientology in general, are extremely adept at avoiding truths and they are the masters of spin. Fortunately, Baca studied previous Davis interviews and new what he was up against. Watch as Davis squirms under the pressure and is forced to answer questions about the security at Gold Base and information pertaining to Scientology manuals covering their Operating Thetan Level 3 materials, or the “Xenu Story” as it’s affectionately known around here.
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Comment by anon — March 17, 2009 @ 3:29 pm
Apparently, no one at GlossLips has taken a journalism class. Baca’s interview was so cosmically far beyond intentionally biased that it should be a model for how not to professionally conduct an even-handed interview.
If a reporter is after truth, s/he asks questions from both sides of the controversy. Not an ounce of that in Baca’s approach.
Comment by Back2SchoolBaca — March 17, 2009 @ 3:38 pm
Hurray for Nathan Baca. That was an interesting link D, about the interview preparation. Here’s a little piece I posted on Usenet for the occasion:
Let’s all come together and celebrate Scientology finally letting Xenu out of the closet!
When you try to explain Scientology to people who don’t know about it, it is difficult telling them things about how they want to “obliterate Psychiatry,” sec checks, front groups, the RPF and their other nuttier-than-a-fruitcake activities.
I always cut straight to Xenu, because EVERYBODY loves Xenu. Of course, I try to mention other things too, but Xenu is their dirty little secret, aside from David Miscavige who probably hides from the public because he’s afraid of having an asthma attack on camera.
After all, before his Scilon miracle cure, his asthma was his excuse for not finishing high school or excelling in sports.
If only he had started practicing Scientology in the womb, he would have been a big basketball or football star, and a Rhodes scholar, instead of just being a high school dropout who collects guns and rides pint-sized motorcycles.
Hail Xenu!
Comment by Astrid — March 17, 2009 @ 3:50 pm
how is the interview bias?
Comment by A non a moose — March 17, 2009 @ 3:52 pm
Back2SchoolBaca – I guess you didn’t watch the entire interview that you can find at KESQ news website.
Comment by JamesSmith — March 17, 2009 @ 3:54 pm
more importantly, there is a myth that journalists have to be balanced. When evidence is mounting that you are out of control, you are allowed to confront people with said evidence.
Baca is scaring Scientology.
Comment by A non a moose — March 17, 2009 @ 3:54 pm
May I address the comment by Back3schoolBaca
You apparently aren’t familiar with the role of journalists. The cult of Scientology has its website and spokespuppets to disseminate its propaganda. It isn’t up to a local news station to allow a cult the forum for that. However, we heard enough of the cult’s view for it to be considered balanced. Problem is, most of what the cult says, comes off as sounding unbalanced, meaning nuts.
What’s next, quoting “sacred scripture” from BATTLEFIELD EARTH?
Comment by Astrid — March 17, 2009 @ 3:56 pm
Back2SchoolBaca – an entertaining name for a scifag troll.
Comment by Anonymous — March 17, 2009 @ 3:56 pm
@ Back2School
Where do you think being a journalist requires giving equal time and consideration to both sides?
If you were doing a news story about the moon and one side was made up of NASA Scientists and the other people who claimed the moon was made of green cheese would you seriously put both stories forward as equally valid?
Journalism has devolved into a bunch of lazy bastards who take both sides of an arguement and display it as a he said/she said kind of deal while taking no stance on the issue and acting like each side is equally viable. They don’t want to risk offending anyone and so they do this while claiming to be “neutral”. It’s not being neutral, it’s being lazy.
It isn’t he said/she said. It isn’t taking both sides and finding the truth somewhere in the middle. The truth is found through research and through asking the hard questions which is exactly what Baca did.
This story (the first 4 parts out of 5) was about Scientology trying to get an ordinance passed through questionable means. What questions would you liked to have seen Baca ask Tommy Davis that would be about the “other side of the controvery”?
He was asked why they felt it was necessary (his side), and then he was asked why the booklets they gave to the supervisors were not stated as coming from the CoS (critic’s side). How is that not covering both sides?
The Xenu stuff, there is no two sides to the controversy. There is “Xenu is a Scientology belief as backed up by former members, court records, audio of hubbard talking about it, and pages in written in Hubbard’s own hand” and the other side is “nu-uh” and shoving their fingers in their ears. There is zero controversy, just straight up lying.
How is giving them the opportunity to continue spreading lies considered in the best interests of journalism? How is letting someone get on the news and claim things that are demonstratably false without being questions/confronted with that fact journalism?
Please, anyone saying that Baca’s report was poor journalism tell me how allowing lies to stand unopposed would be considered “good” journalism.
Finally, did you watch the full interview at all Back2School? Did you not see the part at the end where Tommy had all the time in the world to answer what his greatest personal moment was in Scientology? Or the part where he got to mention all the “good” they do? Go back, watch the full 45 minutes worth of interview. Tommy had plenty of time to make his points. Tommy just really sucks at doing so.
Comment by Bill Billson — March 17, 2009 @ 4:15 pm
“Apparently, no one at GlossLips has taken a journalism class. Baca’s interview was so cosmically far beyond intentionally biased that it should be a model for how not to professionally conduct an even-handed interview.”
Actually, Baca only asked questions. Your failed spokesperson, Tommy Davis simply hung himself by contradicting his previous statements. That Tommy hung HIMSELF with his inconsistent statements is proof that Baca did his job.
On a related topic, how much are they paying you guys these days? I mean, i’m sure $50 bux a week is vastly too much in this economy, with fewer and fewer targets willing to step up to the plate.
And it is going to go vastly downhill from here. Do you think DM won’t run with the money when the COS commences paying more out in bills, court judgments and attorneys fees than it takes in? If you think the economy is bad in general, one could only imagine how it is for a $50 dollar a week employee ($25 now??) of a failing cult-based pyramid scheme.
You are supposed to free the planet, yet you are devoid of any ability to change your enviornment, fully enslaved and completely poor. Keep spamming the internet forums, because there is nothing else you can do.
Comment by AnonymousNow — March 17, 2009 @ 4:22 pm
Well I watched the FULL 45 minute interview and I am astounded at the MOUNTAIN of lies that spewed from Tommy Davis’s thetan hole.
He states the “church’s concern is everyone’s safety at Gold? Espcecially because there are no sidewalks? How “nobody should ever be out in harms way?”
WTF?
Then why didn’t the guards call the police and have a citizens arrest done, instead of them attacking that protestor and shoving his face in the dirt? They do not have the authority to do that, nor do they have the authority to do a citizens arrest. And why are they now turning on sprinklers at Gold base to force protestors into the street? Safety concern my ass!
The lies he came out with are too lengthy to mention. A couple that really made me laugh were thr right for any individual to speak freely” ok… then why are they attacking protestors and fighting ALL critics tooth and nail who speak against them?
No member of any faith should be asked asked or required to explain their beliefs????
WHAT??? ANY religion would be MORE than glad to explain their beliefs to anyone. Well he may be right there though…. Scientlogy has NO faith and is NOT a religion.
He has the nerve to lie and say more people have walked into a COS church in the last year then in their history? WHAT?? Then why are they asking Freezoners to come back? Why is Davy making “different groups of SP’s” now? There the good SP’s (the ones who left and don’t say anything( and the bad SP’s (the ones who left and speak out) And he is offering to let their debt go if they come back and talk to them?? Why are people leaving in droves and orgs are closing and stats are crashing weekly? AND WHERE IS MISCAVIGE???
He says there is an absolute belief in God and the importance of a Supreme being? WHAT? Scientologists have no beliefs in God. And other religions are NOT compatible with Scientology.
About the spikes on the fence that face inward…. his answer was that it’s just the way they were installed?? Oh come on! Really?? Anyone believe this crapola?
He claims that Anonymous has made terrorist attacks,that they were shot at, his employees assaulted, bomb threats,”fake” andthrax, kidnapping threats!! WHAT??? Ok, the FBI has stated that Anonymous is NOT an issue and is not guilty of said crimes. Where are all these stories in the newspapers? Huh Tommy?
He says the Eagles nest at Gold base is a security camera that sweeps the entire property for security reasons? WKAT??? Ok, where is the tape or pictures of the protestor that was attacked?? BS!
Golden Era is an important contributing member to the community? WHAT? Most locals want them the hell out of there. Their Golf Course is open to the community for free and they can use it anytime they want? WHAT??
They closed it to the public last June. They only use it now for ass kissing charity events with the police and other organizations and it is the perfect opportunity to offer free stress tests at these events. It is only to get in good with officials and to promote COS.
He boasts of 150,00.00 Volunterr Miniters? REALLY?Then why are they searching for voluntees to set up and man their “calvalcade tents? BS!
And the lies go on. I can’t name them all.
Tommy you are the biggest baboon that has ever dragged it’s knuckles. I don’t understand how your mother Ann Acher can be proud of the fact that she got you into this abusive sick cult that makes total liars out of people and abuses and lies to its members. How can she be proud of you AT ALL?
The Cult of Scientology confuses, uses and abuses.
They need to be investigated MORE.
And no I am NOT in Anonymous. But I am damn glad they are around, as it is obvious that our government is guilty of not helping to stop Scientology and they will be blamed for contributing to human rights violations by Scientology. If they allow this cult fringe group to continue, then they too should be held accountable.
STOP THE CULT!
TAX THE CULT!
END THE CULT!
Comment by Oh Come On Now! — March 17, 2009 @ 4:34 pm
all liars go to hell, thank GOD!
TD is a huge liar
HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Comment by tiger — March 17, 2009 @ 4:35 pm
I am disgusted at the lies coming out of this man’s mouth . . .
THIS IS WHY . . .
Comment by tiger — March 17, 2009 @ 4:36 pm
Don’t worry now that he blew the Xenu cover up fraud
story Scientology leaders will write a whole new fraudulant story to cover up his admission … and they’ll create more levels to make more money off their brainwashed followers who’ll believe anything they give them to read.
Oooops I meant to say “to make more money off their brainwashed followers who’ll believe anything they sell them to read.”
Comment by Robert Lindblad — March 17, 2009 @ 4:43 pm
Here’s one point that Tommy Davis and everyone is missing: a belief far more central to Scientology than the “Xenu Story” occurs in a 1954 book called The Creation of Human Ability. In it you’ll find the actual core beliefs of Scientology and the most central of those beliefs is a new take on the Buddhist belief that your thoughts determine everything. In other words, considerations are senior to the mechanics around you. If that is a concept that becomes real to you, not as merely an intellectual significance but as actual personal revelation, then you realize that anything is possible. Anything can happen and anything could have happened. From that viewpoint, the “Xenu Story” goes into the “shit happens” bin. The only reason people harp on it is because, for Scientologists, it is sexy (to them) and for non-Scientologists it proves how wacko Scientologists are. But when you look at it from the actual core beliefs of Scientology it isn’t really all that central. I was in Scn for 35 years and am very familiar with its materials. Also, I think the subject itself gets mixed up in the mind of the public with the organization of Scientology, which are two different things entirely. The organization is not doing a very good job dealing with the continuous shitstorm of criticism and ridicule coming its way on a daily basis. In fact, they are creating it themselves by 1) not being forthcoming about the subject itself and 2) the abuses they perpetrate in the name of solving the problems coming their way as a result of #1.
Comment by joe howard — March 17, 2009 @ 4:59 pm
“Oh come on now.” Thank you for detailing all that. I watched the whole interview, but couldn’t have possibly broken it down as well as you did, point by point.
I think some of the Scilons, being rather naive, don’t understand how journalists do a long interview, and then edit out what doesn’t fit in a time slot, for the news. They thought it was unjust that they didn’t show the whole Davis 45 minute interview, which even got boring for me. Tommy rambled on about nothing, and it would have caused the average viewer to tune out or forget what the questions or issues were. That is what Tommy is trained to do. Say a lot of nothing and distract from important issues like why is a security person tackling a protester for stepping two feet over a border, which is outside a fence. Were they going to leap over a 12 foot fence and steal 150 million dollars worth of video equipment?
The outrageous aspect of COS, is that if they could have their way, they would insist on editing everything, including the writing of academics, which they have tried to do. But that is not the way it is done.
I laugh when I think of what Nathan Baca was probably thinking, watching their stupid propaganda where you see all these jazzed-up Scilons, saying things like, “It’s like having a new Mercedes.”
As you mentioned, it is sickening, when journalists do not ask the proper follow-up questions, because they are not familiar enough with the issues, and Baca did. For example, in the old Miscavige/Koppel interview, Koppel was unprepared to comment on Dianetics, and I think he should have either read it, or read critical summaries of it prepared by others, so he could have said, “Dianetics sounds more like psychotherapy than religion….how did they make a religion out of this?” And then he could have pulled it out, and had passages ready.
When the Xenu story is mentioned, it is often presented, with no follow-up questions, and that is bad. This time, Baca did not do that.
Comment by Astrid — March 17, 2009 @ 5:06 pm
Great post Come On Now. For anyone who knows anything about this nefarious cult Tommy’s responses were laughable.
I think he’s going to be on “vacation” at the Gold Base “Hilton” for awhile.
Give Baca a Pulitzer!
Comment by Rachel — March 17, 2009 @ 5:15 pm
Great piece on this latest nightmare for $cientology, from Village Voice:
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2009/03/scientology_get.php
Comment by Rachel — March 17, 2009 @ 5:21 pm
Some more things…if I were a journalist doing a lengthier interview with Tommy, I would want to recount the entire Paulette Cooper story for his reaction, and how the Church justifies that. I would do that as insurance, to make sure they didn’t try to pull anything at all on me, because all my listeners and colleagues would find out about it if they did.
If Tommy wouldn’t respond, I would tell the story after the interview, as others have done with Xenu. I don’t know, maybe there is some legal thing, and they can’t tell her story. Might be a detail of her settlement.
Just within the last year, the writer for the Religious blog section of the Washington Post mentioned that she felt there was some PI (from Scientology) following her around, after she wrote about issues between the German government and Scientology.
All the criminal history of Scientology, as documented in court cases, should be outlined.
What pissed me off about Tommy is he tried to portray Scientology as a religion with a golden history and reputation, as if it were spotless, with their humanitarian front group doing the work of a thousand Mother Teresas, instead of what they actually do. Pass out water, and get in the way of “the psychs” They always say “a few” apostates. Good Xenu, they had 2000 members leave in the shakeup after Hubbard’s death alone, and half of the 8 million who ever took a course, know it is a scam. The ones who got out after one course consider themselves fortunate.
Comment by Astrid — March 17, 2009 @ 5:30 pm
He just really is not a very good spokesman for this group. You’d think that with all of those professional actors they could find someone who is better @ public speaking to represent them.
Comment by J.R. LeMar — March 17, 2009 @ 5:32 pm
@J.R. LeMar
Professional actors aren’t necessarily good at answering questions or speaking without a script. When an actor like Cruise goes on a talk show, he’s probably rehearsed various questions and answers for days, so that they are saying something which makes them sound amusing and intelligent.
Tommy is good looking and poised, but his voice grates, and he’s not the brightest bulb. I agree, they could find someone better. Mike Rinder was a little better but he blew the cult.
It is a hard job, getting up there and lying your ass off for this corrupt cult. I think they may have made a mistake with Tommy, because he is probably sincere, and woefully uninformed about the criminal history of Scientology and the real life of L. Ron Hubbard.
He doesn’t realize he’s making a fool of himself, and could very well go down in history, as Anne Archer’s nitwit son, who was the spokesperson for this dying cult of brainwashed dupes.
I’m hoping Tom Cruise will step in valiantly to take us all on a tour of their museum: PSYCHIATRY: AN INDUSTRY OF DEATH, thinking that will help the cult.
Comment by Astrid — March 17, 2009 @ 6:10 pm
Nah, Mike Rinder wasn’t any better as a spokesman. He always came off a bit slimy, as well. They need to get an attractive woman to take that job. Is Sarah Palin busy? ^_^
Davis does know how to try to stick to his talking points, though. If I played a drinking game, while watching this video, doing a shot everytime he said “religious bigotry” “terrorist” or “hate crimes,” I’d probably be totally wasted by now.
It’s a rather clever ploy, I’ll admit. For the uninitiated, they want this to look as if “Anonymous” is targeting religion, in general, not just Scientology in particular. So he keeps saying “anti-religious” instead of “anti-Scientology.” That why they hope to get sympathy from other religious people, who know that they wouldn’t like it if their religion was attacked. That’s why he kept trying to allude to other groups & individuals that “Anonymous” have supposedly targeted.
Comment by J.R. LeMar — March 17, 2009 @ 6:22 pm
@Joe Howard
You were in Scientology for 35 years and brainwashed to believe anything, no matter how self-contradictory or ripped off from other religions.
The core belief of Scientology is to MAKE MONEY! If you didn’t figure that out, you didn’t get to the core of Scientology nor do you know a damn thing about the very well documented life of L. Ron Hubbard or the history of this so-called Church and Medusa-head of 160 front groups to hide the scam.
If a spokesperson for a religion, does not know the core beliefs of that religion — and Tommy had ample time to say this during the entire 45 minutes of unedited interview — than that religion is OBVIOUSLY a scam. When asked the core beliefs, you get only a sales pitch.
Scientology borrows bits and pieces from a lot of things, as window dressing for its command hypnosis scam to make members pay up, and believe anything they want, creating their own reality.
The genesis story is in Xenu, whether you think so or not.
There is no intellectual or theological grounding for Scientology. Your current leader is a high school dropout, a control freak, who will not even appear in public anymore. You have no one in the entire cult who can speak intelligently about Scientology being a “religion.”
Comment by Astrid — March 17, 2009 @ 6:27 pm
“The genesis story is in Xenu, whether you think so or not.”
I don’t know how anyone could deny it, @ this point. He admits it. When the interviewer started reading it, Davis said that’s confidential scriptures (or “esoteric”) & he couldn’t talk about. But if it wasn’t true, he could just say it’s not true. And why would the Church sue or send Cease & Desist letters if that wasn’t actual Church documents?
I’ve tried to be fair, and give these folks the benefit of the doubt before, but they’re busted now.
Comment by J.R. LeMar — March 17, 2009 @ 6:34 pm
@J.R. LeMar
Certainly. I get your drift about the “anti-religious” rather than “anti-Scientology.” After all, he took it even further in saying Anonymous are racist homophobes.
You can bet Scientology has been very active in forming alliances with various small fringe religious groups, or sects within larger religions that feel they are marginalized, just for being small. I read some things about that at one point.
In exchange for their support of Scientology’s STAMP OUT RELIGIOUS HATRED (or whatever) front group — they might not even know it is Scientology — they will be given free membership or protection of some sort, maybe some propaganda materials about how Anonymous is targeting all religions and could be after them.
Comment by Astrid — March 17, 2009 @ 6:42 pm
Still my faves from the interview:
“Why is there a camouflaged look-out post?”
“You wouldn’t want to mar the landscape.”
“Why are the razor spikes on the fences pointing inward?”
“That’s just how they were installed.”
Thanks to “Future Emmy Winner” Nathan Baca
Comment by marcab — March 17, 2009 @ 6:56 pm
The CoS is just doing what people have done for years when faced with questions they don’t want to answer…if you BS around enough eventually people will either get sidetracked playing with your strawman, forget the original question, or get fed up and go away. They can’t even think up their own schtick.
Comment by k — March 17, 2009 @ 7:00 pm
I picture this at the next Scilon rally:
Hey, a big shout-out to Xenu. After 75 million years, he’s come out of the closet!
Comment by Astrid — March 17, 2009 @ 7:02 pm
Besides being a total dupe, Tommy Davis, personal spokes-puppet of the great David Miscavige, is a towering example of the delusion that infects the Church of Scientology. Scientology is supposed to be “the road to truth,” yet nothing comes out of Tommy’s mouth but lies — the one exception being his confirmation of the Xenu story.
And in that regard, Tommy Davis is now the first Sea Org Member since 1967 to confirm on the world stage the story of Xenu. And so Tommy Davis goes down in history as personally responsible for one of the greatest security breaches in Scientology history.
This is what happens when a person can no longer think for himself. He has to do the impossible: spin lies within lies, without exposing any of the other lies. At a certain point it becomes impossible and all comes crashing down.
The real story of Scientology is simple. It’s not a religion. That’s the bottom line. It’s not a religion. It never was a religion. Scientology is a spiritual philosophy. It was made into a religion for financial and defensive purposes — so they can cry “hate crime!” and “bigotry!” to back people off.
Scientology is a spiritual philosophy that has been taken over by a high-school drop-out and sadistic runt of a thug named David Miscavige who has turned Scientology into organized crime. Instead of selling and delivering services, Churches simply shake down parishioners for cash. All of it.
I lived at Scientology’s International Headquarters for well over a decade. I was there when security guards installed the “wrong way” spikes. Here’s the clarification: the razor-edged spikes point inward so that any Scientology staff trying to escape will be cut to ribbons.
Tommy alludes to bomb threats, etc. What a load of crap. That is in itself a tired, OLD trick of the Church. They forge the bomb threats themselves so they can get politicians and law enforcement on their side. They hold continual “mixers” for the local city councils to get them in their pocket.
I’m not a member of Anonymous, but I applaud their efforts. America was founded on the principle of freedom of speech. The Church of Scientology does not stand for freedom of speech, or freedom of religion for that matter. If you want to see the authors of hate crimes, look at what the Church of Scientology does to its ex staff — like myself. People who left because they saw David Miscavige beat the crap out of their friends, as in “until their ears bled.” I left and was declared a “suppressive person.” No Scientologists may communicate with me including my ex-spouse — whom they kept! I was cut off from my own spouse and my friends after some 20 years… handed $500 and turned out on the street. Oh, I’m not special, the “Church” of Scientology has does that to hundreds of veteran Scientologists.
And now we’re starting to speak up. Will the authorities listen?
The Church of Scientology isn’t the victim here. They are the abusers. When you take off the blinders and confront reality, the entire subject gets simple. But one has to be able to confront evil. And the Church of Scientology under David Miscavige is incredibly evil.
David Miscavige does beat his staff. With his fists and feet. That is what happens behind the razor spikes. Why do you think they need razor spikes to keep staff there???
This is not an exaggeration or untruth. It is FACT. Dozens of us have seen it or experienced it. That IS the primary reason many of us left and were since labeled “suppressive” — a slick way of keeping us quiet. Not that there weren’t many other reasons to leave…
For example, I know of one woman who when she became pregnant, she was coerced by Church executives operating on Miscavige orders to get an abortion without consulting the father — since they already knew the father would have wanted to keep the child and leave staff. I call that murder.
Denying religious freedom, human trafficking, murder… that is reality. Now the spikes pointing inward make sense, don’t they? Tommy Davis braying like a trained donkey… “Hee-haw, hee-haw!” Makes sense now doesn’t it? See, things get simple when you actually deal in truth instead of PR.
In 1993 I heard David Miscavige brag how he caught IRS Commissioner Fred Goldberg outside of his office and blackmailed him into granting full tax exemption for the Church of Scientology. Apparently Miscavige had private detectives dig up some dirt on Fred Goldberg and Miscavige threatened to expose him in USA Today with a full page ad. That’s how they got tax exemption.
Scientology isn’t a religion. There is no god. They don’t worship anything.
…I take that back. David Miscavige worships himself. And power.
He took my unborn child.
Comment by Thoughtful — March 17, 2009 @ 7:13 pm
I really want to see a follow-up interview with that politician who passed out that “Anonymous” booklet now. I want him to answer, did he know that Scientology was involved in creating it, and, if so, did he question whether or not they were telling the truth? And if he didn’t know who was behind it, since the booklet suspiciously omitted any references or names involved in it’s publication, did he think it was wise to just accept something like that @ face value?
Comment by J.R. LeMar — March 17, 2009 @ 7:48 pm
Astrid, Don’t take this the wrong way, but I’m positive that between your arrogance and your ignorance that you would make a fine spokesperson for Scientology, easily as good as Tommy Davis.
Comment by joe howard — March 17, 2009 @ 10:41 pm
@joe howard & astrid & thoughtful:
It is most probably true, that Xenu is not a core belief for most practicing Scientologists.
, but it is pretty obvious, that for Scientologists Xenu is not something that represents Scientology nor is somehow central to Scientology. For once, most Scientologists don’t even know about Xenu, because they have not achieved OTIII yet and besides that, we know from ex scientologists, who achieved OTIII, that they did not believe in the Xenu story, but merely accepted it as something that comes along with the rest of the OTIII stuff.
It is unfortunate for the CoS, that Scientologists are unable to adequatly explain what’s the point of the Xenu story in OTIII.
I don’t understand the point myself
It is therefore admittedly somewhat dishonest to claim, that Xenu would be Scientology’s core belief.
As far as i understand it, Xenu merely provides a background story for the auditing processes that are being done on the OT levels, since Xenu is the cause of body thetans, which need to get audited away.
But the main point of the OT levels consists of auditing processes and not doctrine. It is possible to do the processes, even without believing in the Xenu story.
I am not a Scientologist and have never practiced Scientology, but i have talked to some Scientologists online and have done a lot of research on this. This is just my personal interpretation of Xenu based on this research.
Though it is not my job to explain what’s the point of Xenu and i could be completely wrong, it would be Tommy Davis job to do so.
Just like any other Scientologist, he is unable to explain it, simply because his beliefs forbid him to even talk about Xenu and because every Scientologists is supposed to find himself “what is true for him” and is not allowed to somehow lay out his own interpretation of Scientology for others to follow. This is the dilemma in which Scientologists find themselves, when confronted with questions about the confidential OT levels. Their own beliefs forbid them to talk about their beliefs and so they are unable to adequatly interpret and defend their beliefs.
So their only resort is to
“attack, never defend”.
Comment by Kenny — March 17, 2009 @ 10:55 pm
Look, most critics get that the Xenu story isn’t a big deal in Scientology. It’s a small part of one level of Scientology indoctrination.
The reason it gets so much attention is that it sounds hilarious and is fun to lampoon. It wouldn’t be nearly such a juicy target if Scientology hadn’t spent years LYING about it and trying to sue into oblivion anyone who repeated it publicly.
I file the Xenu story in the same pile I file all of Scientology’s other bullshit… right next to the stack of LRH’s “qualifications” as a nuclear physicist, Ph. D., first Eagle Scout and highly qualified naval officer. And pilot. And photographer. And musician. And medical expert. Blah de fucking blah blah.
Comment by David Mudkips — March 18, 2009 @ 12:50 am
Good job Kenny! That’s probably the best argument anyone could make too apologize for Scientology’s ridiculous space opera. I mean it. Still though it is not enough. Your explanation is invalid because you left out a lot of important information.
The OT III/Xenu story is the CoS’s core “belief”. From OT III and beyond Scientologists have to audit their past lives, and the past lives of their body thetans AKA BT’s which are the dead aliens souls that are attached to our body’s. Hence the OT III story.
How can you continue past OT III if you are not made too believe in Xenu? If you don’t believe then you are lying to yourself. What kind of religion makes their members keep secrets, and lie to themselves?
Scientology is not a religion, it is a scam. Anyone can see that. Any “religion” were you have a progressively pay your way up the ladder before they’ll reveal their “secrets” to you isn’t a religion. That’s a scam. It is dishonest to charge clients thousands of dollars and not tell them what you are selling. It is an unethical business practice.
Everything else is just part of the phony facade. Scientology’s policies of secrecy were put into place to protect their scam, and nothing more. Their is nothing religions about Scientology.
Comment by sk8mike — March 18, 2009 @ 1:55 am
About them spikes. Davis explains that Gold has to have security measures. Well, he’s not lying. Letting those inmates at gold escape is indeed a security risk to the cult. He doesn’t lie, he just says it like it is, i.e.: “we’re a cult that holds people captive.”
Comment by Bird — March 18, 2009 @ 5:22 am
The OT III Xenu story is an elaborate form of sec check. After the ‘wins’ of the TR levels and the pressure and indoctrination up until Xenu’s appearance Hubbard needed a test to see who was still with him.
Jason Beghe was asked, in Mark Bunkers famous interview, if he actually believed this story. He said he “accepted” it. It almost means the same but belief needs passion. Acceptance, however, is all Hubbard would have wanted. It was all he needed to see, redefine or discover his enemies -one of his most consistent and persistant activities. With the introduction of OT III to a cult-members curriculum he could dictate the timing of the emergence of a dangerous misbelief and erradicate it. He could not allow doubts to fester.
In this light it is then logical to think of the Xenu story as not a central part of scientology belief but as just another one of Hubbards tools. However, Jon Atack who wrote “A Piece Of Blue Sky” was elated to find out that his personal problems were not down to him but body-thetans, so sometimes the story is treated with awe and reverance. All the better then, for Hubbard’s ambitions.
Every single level or activity within the cult has two roles to perform. These are to indoctrinate and control: the supply of money for one but also to gain and maintain the attractive addiction of power.
Someone commented that the OT III level was only a small part in a great controlling system. I think it was an essential part. Perhaps it was Hubbard’s perverse sense of humour -plus his arrogance in believing it could be kept secret by threats, to dream it up in the first place.
OT III’s strength comes from Hubbard’s and scientology’s hold over it’s members. It’s weakness is the ease to which it can be ridiculed: no more so than the ‘death by pneumonia’ caused by the ‘freewheeling’ reading of it out of it’s fixed order.
Hubbard’s nonsense condemns spokespersons like Tommy Davis to a life of back-pedalling from hereon. Miscavige is playing for time when he uses him as a patsy -nobody else is willing, and time is running out.
Comment by General Public — March 18, 2009 @ 6:34 am
@General Public
Very well put. That kind of greater insight can’t be gained simply by being a member of the organization and accepting “what is true for you” when so much pressure is put on ACCEPTING, in order to advance, and avoid punishment (sec checks, additional fees, RPF, humiliation).
After all, members who never leave, and don’t read books about the experiences of others, or books about the history, like Bare-Faced, see a narrow picture of Scientology.
I don’t doubt that some celebrities and other members, have a fun, positive time in Scientology, with some really exhilarating highs. You can tell it is a real trip for Cruise, the high school drop out, who feels himself imbued with special power, and an “authority on the mind.” At one point, Hitler felt on top of the world, gassing Jews and taking over countries. Just because it is a positive experience for some people within an organization, doesn’t mean it is right.
To see the bigger picture, you have to draw back, and take a multitude of factors into consideration. You have to read about the experiences of dozens, even hundreds of former members, because they have seen both sides, and many like Jerry Armstrong, have seen the inner workings, which is something a lot of regular members just do not see, especially the public or celebrity members. Everyone’s experience is unique.
Scientologists are always imploring people to learn about it by immersing yourself in it, because THAT is the only way to understand it, and see if “it works for you.”
I say the opposite. The only way to understand Scientology, is to get OUT OF IT. “Wake up!” (Jason Beghe) Draw back. Read about the bigger picture. Read about the experience of others because that is important too.
Understand the obvious, that something may be awry, if 8 million people took that first course in Scientology, but there are only 100,000 people who stuck with it.
Comment by Astrid — March 18, 2009 @ 9:13 am
@General Public
Your last two paragraphs…
“OT III’s strength comes from Hubbard’s and scientology’s hold over it’s members. It’s weakness is the ease to which it can be ridiculed: no more so than the ‘death by pneumonia’ caused by the ‘freewheeling’ reading of it out of it’s fixed order.”
“Hubbard’s nonsense condemns spokespersons like Tommy Davis to a life of back-pedalling from hereon. Miscavige is playing for time when he uses him as a patsy -nobody else is willing, and time is running out.”
Yes, I couldn’t agree more. As someone who was never a Scientologist, although I recognize that it is the abuses in Scientology which are unjust, and its goals and potential I consider it to be the greatest danger (the only real reason I became a critic), the “sacred scriptures” can’t be left alone, or be free from critical analysis, and that includes using them for a good laugh.
The death-by-pneumonia threat hanging over the sci-fi Xenu story, (aka “secret sacred scriptures”) complete with DC8s, has too much comic potential, as a way to capture people’s attention. It smacks of “Hubbard was a loon.” It has “It’s a scam!” written all over it as a subtext.
No matter how much explanation they come up with — they should hire a gymnastics coach — to try to be sophisticated, pious, and serious, comparing this with other religions, and saying it is “exactly the same,” it isn’t. On one level it is as silly, but on an important level, it is far more silly. That is, we know too much about Hubbard and the organization. It is too well documented. Scientology has been involved in too many court-documented illegal activities.
And their new gyroscopic centrifuge — the “same one the astronauts use” — is not going to enhance the credibility of their “sacred scriptures.” Ditto for the three underground vaults to house all this wisdom emblazoned on titanium.
Ditto for their “IT’S THE PSYCHS!” museum and traveling freak show. Ditto for everything else.
I sincerely hope the FBI is monitoring Scientology closely, for “END DAYS” behavior — large Kookaid shipments or weapons purchases in particular.
Comment by Astrid — March 18, 2009 @ 10:09 am
One last thing, I want to make it clear I’m not Xenuphobic. I love Xenu!
Comment by Astrid — March 18, 2009 @ 10:13 am
for the record, as a christian…i have NO problem talking about my religion and have never been offended by being asked about it or if people disagree with it. tommy davis is just a brainwashed cog.
Comment by abazaba — March 19, 2009 @ 4:53 am
Hey, Back2School: As someone with a journalism degree and 15 years of experience, I can tell you unequivocally that you haven’t a clue about journalism.
Comment by DMS — March 19, 2009 @ 1:21 pm
GIRLFRIEND, ENOUGH WITH THE SCIENTOLOGY!!! PALEEEEASE?
(YES, I’M SCREAMING), WE’VE HAD ENOUGH, ALREADY, JUST GIVE IT A BREAK FOR A BIT, OK? WE ARE ALL NOT AS OBSESSED WITH THIS SUBJECT, AS YOU ARE, THANK YOU.
Comment by d griffiths — March 20, 2009 @ 8:38 am
Hey DG, talk to the hand ‘cuz the face ain’t listening. Thanks for playing, now move on.
Comment by D — March 20, 2009 @ 9:05 am