Scientology Ditz, Jenna Elfman’s New Fall Show… A CBS Accident For Sure
Grrrrr!! I Love Scientology!
Just when things are looking up and NBC drops Scientologist Jason Lee’s show, “My Name is Earl,” (the dumbest show ever…right up there next to My Mother The Car) CBS says they are coming out with a new comedy this Fall called “Accidentally on Purpose”, and will star Jenna Elfman. Thanks CBS, thanks A LOT!
Jenna was recently interviewed on the Early Show, to promote her new flop show and they ran a clip of Accidentally On Purpose. It is beyond BAD. In the small clip you can already tell the show is loaded with bad acting, lousy writing and it’s just NOT funny. See for yourself.
For those of you who don’t know who Jenna Elfman is, she made it big with the TV show “Dharma and Greg” years ago. Now for all you youngins’, who are saying, who or what the hell is Dharma and Greg, allow me to enlighten you.
The show aired from 1997 – 2002 and was about a culture-clashed couple, with Dharma, a goofy neo-hippy whose parents are new agey types and her husband, Greg (played by Thomas Gibson) a straight-laced lawyer, whose parents, you guessed are also uptight yuppies. Oh the hilarity that ensued (or didn’t depending on who you ask) as the quirky Dharmas and the uppity Gregs dealt with life’s little mysteries. Ok, enough of that drivel.
In real life, Jenna is NO Dharma, abiding by the live and let live policy of her on-screen persona, but rather she and her husband Bodhi, (son of director Richard Elfman) are die-hard Scientologists. And just to keep you apprised of what Scientologists believe about other religions — they don’t. Even worse than most mainstream religions, Scientology is one of the most intolerant of outside beliefs and other faiths of any cult around.
Not surprising… Bodhi’s father Richard, is also a Scientologist. Jenna and Bodhi met at auditions for a Sprite commercial. Bodhi was responsible for getting Jenna into the cult. The BOTH studied under Milton Katselas who is the teacher at the famed The Beverly Hills Playhouse. Unfortunately Katselas has pressured MANY celebrities to get into Scientology, but since he has “dropped his body” at least he won’t be able to lure any new converts (thanks Liz).
The Elfmans have one child, Story Elias, who will presumably be raised as a Scientologist. SAD I believe Jenna is OT V on Scientology’s Bridge To Nowhere. Correct me if I am wrong. And she has also been on Scientology’s Freewinds cruise ship which was laden with asbestos when she traveled on it. Better get those lungs checked Jenna!
Now this new show, “Accidentally On Purpose” is supposed to be a comedy, but the true comedy here is definitely Jenna herself. She has been known to come out with some pretty off-the-wall statements over the years, and Jenna and Bodhi defend their cult with an iron fist.
Back in 2006, when Elfman was out one day with Bodhi, they happened to come across someone wearing a Scientology is Gay t-shirt which pictured Tom Cruise on the front, and a young John Travolta, with VERY GAY written underneath.
This prompted Jenna to scream at and berate this man wearing the t-shirt with standard Scientology attack behavior, asking him what his crimes were and if he raped a baby. Yes you read that right. Seriously, WTF is up with that line of defensive, or in this case, offensive? That’s a classic sign of instability and insanity if you ask me.
”Tom Cruise’s recent public displays weren’t evidence enough, Scientologists Jenna and Bodhi Elfman prove that they, too, are willing to go to great lengths to defend their religion.Indie film director John Roecker tells TMZ he was walking to his car with a female friend in the trendy Los Feliz neighborhood last Sunday when he was approached by a shirtless man and a tall blonde. “Hey, man, you’re making fun of my religion,” said the stranger angrily.
Roecker quickly recognized the couple as actor Bodhi Elfman and his wife, ‘Dharma and Greg’ star Jenna Elfman. Mr. Elfman’s ire was apparently drawn by Roecker’s self-made t-shirt, which had a picture of Tom Cruise on the front under the caption “Scientology is Gay!” and a ‘Stayin’-Alive’-era John Travolta on the back with the words “Very Gay!” For the record, both Cruise and Travolta have said repeatedly they are not gay.
According to Roecker, whose encounter was first reported on LA’s KROQ-FM’s Kevin and Bean Show, the invective started to fly after he made several references to Scientology theology and its reported central tenent, the story of Xenu.
Roecker says Jenna repeatedly said “What crimes have you committed?” and began screaming at Roecker, “Have you raped a baby?” as motorists on Los Feliz Boulevard drove by in snarled traffic.
Roecker says it appears that Bodhi Elfman prepared to take a swing at him, but thought against it.
Bizarrely, Roecker also says that the Elfmans had a young, twenty-something male companion with them whom they continually instructed to move away and cover his ears whenever references to Xenu were made.
Roecker says this is not the first time he has worn a t-shirt that has provoked similar reactions from fellow devotees of L. Ron Hubbard like Juliette Lewis, Lisa Marie Presley, and actor Hal Ozman, who worked on ‘Dawson’s Creek’ with none other than a certain Katie Holmes. Sources at the Church of Scientology’s Celebrity Centre say Roecker is no stranger to them. Several non-celeb parishioners have also complained about Roecker’s t-shirts.
Bodhi Elfman’s rep Jenni Weinman tells TMZ that according to Bodhi “He was out for a Sunday stroll with his wife, when some guy walks by with a t-shirt on, very prominently attacking his religion. Words were extended and Bodhi and Jenna were personally attacked for their beliefs. As they went about their business, the guy continued to try to illicit negative responses from the both of them. As they walked away he continued to scream propaganda and hate at them. Apparently he spent all Monday calling the press to promote himself.
Yikes! Elfmans, grow the hell up and get a clue on reality! Oh wait… too late, you’re Scientologists, things like reality and a clue are foreign terms.
I was going to give Jenna a good dissing in this article, because she most definitely deserves it, but it’s really not necessary. All one has to do, is quote Jenna herself, her quotes pretty much diss herself.
So here we go…a few charming quotes by Ms. Jenna Whack-a-Do Scientology Extraordinaire.
Quote from the Mirabella magazine interview 1999:
“Bodhi [Elfman, her husband] also introduced her to the Church of Scientology. ‘He didn’t push it on me or anything. I started becoming curious, from hearing him talk about it. I took a course where you get the basic concepts. It was everything I felt I already knew, but I was missing pieces, so I couldn’t apply it to life.’ She doesn’t proselytize–’our founder, L. Ron Hubbard, says if it’s true for you, it’s true for you, and if it’s not, it’s not. There are all these misconceptions about someone pushing it on you’–but says that Scientology restored her confidence and helped her focus on career goals. ‘I went, This is for me–I like this! It just kind of cleared everything out.’
‘Psychiatrists believe man is an animal, which means there’s no soul, which I think is a lie.’ The statement suggests acceptance of Scientology’s virulent anti-psychiatry stance, and a lack of experience with therapy, a fact she readily cops to. She favors a Scientology process involving a machine called an E-meter. The subject holds two can-like objects hooked up to the E-meter. ‘You know how your head feels heavy when you’re having a problem?’ Elfman says. ‘It’s actually mass that you can weigh. It’s compressed mental energy. And the E-meter sees changes in that.’ A counselor asks questions about what might be bothering you, Elfman explains, and if your response jolts the needle on the E-meter, you know you’ve found the root of your problem. ‘The counselor helps you pinpoint exactly, so there’s no maybe-it’s-this, maybe-it’s-that. There’s lightning-fast progress, because you’re handling only the charged areas. You don’t dilly-dally. What you can do in literally about a half hour will take people a year or two to do in therapy.’”
Give Me Those Cans!
Scientology regards the e-meter as a religious artifact.*snicker*
The meter is believed to reflect or indicate whether or not the confessing person has been relieved from spiritual impediment of his sins. Uh yeah…ok.
"Pal" Shown Was Travolta's Son Jett's Nanny
The e-meter, is nothing more than a cheap lie detector which can only measure electrical resistance, and is used to get personal information on Scientology members. All this information is kept on file, which can be later used against them if they decide to speak out against the church or if they leave. You won’t see Travolta or Cruise leaving any time soon, Scientology has WAY too much poop on them.
Scientology can deem Cruise and Travolta as PTS (potential trouble sources) and dump Cruise’s and Travolta’s careers faster than two shakes of a lamb’s tail if anything should happen that is not to Scientology’s liking. In other words…THEY ARE STUCK.
Some “church” huh?
Mrs. Elfman believes that this device can actually determine changes in mental energy. We’re sorry to burst your Scientology bubble Jenna, but IT CAN’T. Unfortunately, like any cultie there’s no convincing them that the lies there are being told, like that a lie detector CAN see a change in your mental energy, aren’t true. Besides Jenna has her enabler hubby, who so kindly brought her into the whole Scientology scam, to confirm her delusions.
Perhaps Jenna should actually look into just exactly what the e-meter IS and learn that anyone getting audited or doing one of their “free stress tests” can change the way the needle will read just by applying a little pressure in their grip on the cans, or even using some lotion. We’re sure she would, but clearly she’s too busy collecting dictionaries. YES, she collects dictionairies.
I can not think of anything more uninteresting to collect. But I guess Jenna needs all those dictionaires to look up her MU’S — misunderstood words. Yet another made up problem created by LRH. “Misunderstood Words” is part of L. Ron’s scam to create a “study technique” which he could use as part of his whole mind control efforts to keep people hooked on Scientology, click here for more on Study Tech and MU’S.
Speaking of Brainwash-a-rama:
“It’s a new religion. Historically every new religion has been [dismissed]. People were hanged, fed to the lions for their beliefs, so this is just a modern-day evolution of what happens when something new comes into our culture. It is not fully understood yet. I’ve seen drug addicts completely rehabilitated, I’ve seen the illiterate become literate, I’ve seen people that were so depressed and hopeless completely rehabilitate their goals in life, become happier, find partners. It’s beautiful.”
More Appropriate Name For Her Upcoming Show
“the more successful I became, the more suppression I bumped into … especially in the entertainment industry, which really is home to rabid suppression.”
“I intend to make Scientology as accessible to as many people as I can. And that is my goal,” Elfman said. To do this, she says, it is my “duty to clear the planet.”
I'm Going To Clear The Planet Yay!!!
The big kahuna of all crazy Jenna Elfman quotes comes from a 1999The Daily Radar article:
The Daily Radar web site reported that Scientology celebrity Jenna Elfman recently refused to participate in a charity autograph auction. “During the last holiday season, the Dharma & Greg star refused to take part in a celebrity autograph auction for an organization that raised money for the care of children with HIV. As a brainwashed devotee of The Church of Scientology, the bah-humbugy Elfman stated that she couldn’t support any organization that raised money for AIDS research or relief because ‘AIDS is a state of mind, not a disease.’ Get over it! They’re babies, for Buddha’s sake!!
Well that says it all, don’t yah think? Jenna thinks AIDS is a state of mind? What more can I possibly add to that? But sadly, there’s more to add.
Back to this upcoming flop/show of hers.The premise of the show goes as follows, a snippet from the Futon Critic from CBS:
“Jenna Elfman-led comedy “Accidentally on Purpose”… revolves around a San Francisco movie critic (Elfman) who finds herself accidentally pregnant after a fling with a much younger man (Jon Foster).
Excellent! Great to see Scientologists supporting such wholesome family values. Good thing Jenna’s not in the Sea Org, or she might forced to abort that baby.
We aren’t here to tell you want to do, but to encourage you to learn more about the evils of Scientology, in the hopes you will choose not to support their famous spokespeople. Scientology recruits and encourages their famous converts to speak up about the religion in the hopes of converting others. Scientology is a cult, and it’s members are being used to fund it’s various schemes and money-laundering.
How into Scientology is Jenna Elfman? Elfman was listed as a “Founding Patron” back in 2004, which means she ”donated” $40,000 to Scientology. In 2006, she and husband Bodhi are listed as “Members with Honor Status.” which should mean they donated another $100,000 to the cult.
You can clearly see the money-trail and how the money you pay to watch these celebs movies and shows end up back in the cult’s pockets.
And let’s not forget the $10 MILLION DOLLARS that Nancy Cartwright gave the cult last year or the FIVE MILLION from Kirstie Alley. And who knows what untold MILLIONS from Tom Cruise has given Scientology over the years to keep his secrets quiet.
Will Smithopened up a school AND later down the line a high school that teaches Scientology brainwashing tech.
Even more disturbing, are the donations given by the Smiths, close friends of the Cruises, who “claim” to not be Scientologists.
Just a reminder, Jada will be staring in the upcoming show Hawthorne, on TNT, where she will ironically play an RN. Don’t know about you, but that’s the night I sort socks, so I will be busy.
One more fan of the cult, John Travolta also has a new film coming out, The Taking of Pelham 1,2,3, who tragically just lost his son Jett only this past January.
Sadly, Scientology couldn’t help the Travolta’s with Jett’s AUTISM.
Jett died too young and unnecessarily, due to the cult’s teachings and policies on psyche drugs and their inability to accept autism as real condition.
So if you think supporting Scientology is ok, then I suggest you do more homework.
Scientology... It's Worse Than You Think
Anyone can of course believe in whatever they choose, but that is NOT the problem with Scientology, paying for salvation is. Being guilty of human rights abuses, brainwashing, child and sexual abuse, tax exemption, religious cloaking, human trafficking, and bilking their members out of hundreds of thousands and even millions of dollars is also a HUGE problem.
Some websites you can visit to learn more about Scientology’s abuses are listed below:
www.exscientologykids.com
www.whyweprotest.net
www.youfoundthecard.com
www.scientology-kills.org
www.xenu.net
If you need help leaving Scientology, or just need to talk to someone
you can call TOLL FREE: 1-866-XSEAORG.
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I have yet to be able to stomach anything Jenna Elfman, and that was even before I knew anything about $cientology. She is vile and simply painful to watch in action. Way to go CBS! Looks like you got a real prize with this one.
Comment by glp — May 26, 2009 @ 12:58 pm
Great article, one correction:
“So if you are thinking of going to study under Milton Katselas, think again!”
Milton passed away (or “dropped his body” in $ci-speak) in October.
Comment by liz — May 26, 2009 @ 1:23 pm
Thanks Liz, will correct!
Comment by D — May 26, 2009 @ 1:26 pm
I thoroughly enjoyed My Name Is Earl.
I like its hill billy type of vibe.
A person need not always talk & be or try to be intelligent as this is very very boring.
I hate comedies with morals as this is religion not comical.
I disagree with Scientology alot but this does not mean I must have a hate campaign against entertainers just because they follow Scientology.
I was a Scientologist once & would not have liked it if people had judged my other activities in my life if they had judged me harshly for having been a Scientologist.
As long as they seperate Scientology from their entertainment then this is fine with me.
Comment by Moneen — May 26, 2009 @ 1:44 pm
Moneen, scilon’s income eventually goes to Scientology. So to support them is to support Scientology. I wouldn’t go to a restaurant that supports something I don’t like. They wouldn’t get my money.
So Scientologists will not get my money or my support. Nancy Cartwight donated 10 million to Scientology, so money she made off the Simpsons went to Scientology… get it now?
Comment by COS is FAIL — May 26, 2009 @ 2:19 pm
Nancy Cartwright gave 10 million to Scientology last May 08. So this was income from The Simpsons. So although Moneen says as long as Scientology is kept seperate from thenternainment it is fone with jher.
Which is impossible. alot of celebrity pay checks go to Scientology, so it is not kept seperate.
To support anything Scientologists do is to support the cult, not matter how you cut it. The cult will eventually end up with the money. If people didn’t watch these shows, the show would fail, and then they would be out of a job. Which will then mean no money for Scientology.
Comment by Scientology is a scam — May 26, 2009 @ 2:54 pm
whatever.
Comment by glp — May 26, 2009 @ 2:55 pm
Moneen, there is NO seperation between Scientolgy and entertainment. The ONLY reason Scientology has celebrities is for their cash. To support celebrities who are Scientologists is to support Scientology taking their money an Scientology other absues. So you are WRONG.
Comment by Paula — May 26, 2009 @ 3:08 pm
Interesting opinions.
Maybe your next article can be about those stupid, zombie Christians who believe in a dead magician that they’re all waiting for to come back from the sky and throw everyone else into a fire somewhere out in space that never goes out and will burn everybody forever without consuming them. You know… the ones that bomb a medical clinic because somebody had an abortion. But meanwhile they will build their GIGANTIC golden churches and pass the collection plate.
Or maybe you could write about the Jews that believe that the earth is only 6000 years old and who completely control Hollywood and the stock market.
And don’t forget those idiot Buddhists that burn their incense before their golden idols and bow down before it.
I could go on and on…
I can’t wait till you attack someone else because of their religious beliefs and tell all the “stories” you’ve heard about them.
And don’t forget to add links to other angry websites that hate just as much as you do.
I think you have a skin head Nazi meeting to get back to don’t you?
Comment by Will — May 26, 2009 @ 3:48 pm
The only person that sounds angry is you, Will. Scientology critics just want to expose
the deception and manipulation that goes on in Scientology and take a stand against
Scientology’s attempts to terrorize people into silence. Can’t the OSA come up with
better arguments that moral relativism? On a side note, there are a lot of new
Scientology internet handler nicks, Terreo and Louanne Lee and James Lightfield have
been discontinued I guess? The OSA is trying to make it’s thread posts appear to be
an “everymans” point of view? That does’nt work because we can still tell you’re a
Scientologist.
Comment by bob dobbs — May 26, 2009 @ 4:13 pm
Oh Will. sweet Will…..
When are you going to learn?
All those other religions you mentioned do not parade around as one thing and do another. They do not hide what their religions are about and ask for money in return for salvation. They also do not have celebrities that they ADVERTISE.
I guess you think that saying that Jews controling Hollywood and the stock market make you not a bigot?
Actually all the things you mentioned makes YOU a bigot. It’s like the pot calling the kettle black now isn’t it Will?
You think all those links in the article are “hate” websites because they state FACTS??
Actual copies of L. Ron Hubbards’s miltary records is a “hate” website? LOL! You just dont like reading the truth, because that is what you have been brainwashed into believing.
I am an atheist, so I don’t believe in other religions either.
It has just been anounced in the Hamburg Germany conference that Scientology is one of the most dangerous cults.
AND Scientology is being sued for FRAUD in France. Tick… Tock… Will…. you will be left holding on to your books and tapes and e-meter that you paid THOUSANDS and thousands of dollars for, only to find out you have been scammed.
That is the diference between Scientology any other “religions”. At least other religions will not hide what they are about and not charhe you hundrends of thousands of dollars for salvation.
Comment by Paula — May 26, 2009 @ 4:19 pm
Will says:
“Stupid, zombie Christians”
“Jews completely control Hollywood and the stock market.”
“idiot Buddhists that burn their incense before their golden idols and bow down before it.”
Wow, why is it ok for you to speak such HATE?
I guess this is what Scientology taught you?
The most ethical people on the planet?? LOL!
After all Christianity and other relgions are just an implants right Will?
Get a clue Will.
Comment by Terrance — May 26, 2009 @ 4:24 pm
I liked ‘My Name is Earl’ too, and have liked some of Jenna’s stuff too. It could happen
But, there’s no question that Scientology is bug-fuck crazy and more. It’s vicious and hateful and, if it could, would make Joe Stalin look like Pol Pot on Prozac.
Poor Jenna; poor Scientologists.
Zinjifar
Comment by Zinjifar — May 26, 2009 @ 4:32 pm
Hey Will!
Deny that this story is real about Scientology getting sued in France? This is the ACTUAL news.
Or aren’t you allowed to watch this?
Youtube link below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XqcUpfqOe8
Comment by Bugby — May 26, 2009 @ 4:36 pm
Will, I don’t really need to add anything, because others have pointed out your obvious failings in logic, but I have to give you credit for trying. Scientology is different from every other “religion” for one simple fact, they charge you for their religious teachings.
While each religion has some level of embarrassing history to contend with, and most have engaged in hypocritical behavior, none make it a requirement you spend large sums of money to acquire the “knowledge” they are dispensing. If a religion’s goal is salvation (or clearing the planet in the case of the Scientologists) they would cheerfully give out their scriptures. In Scientology, you either work it off as an indentured servant for a billion years, or you pay close to $350,000 for it.
If that’s not a scam, then I don’t know what is.
Comment by D — May 26, 2009 @ 4:42 pm
jason lee used to be so cool, back in his skateboarding/sonic youth video starring days. alas.
the only issue i take with this is bashing on scientology beliefs. -all- religions are fucking stupid if you boil them down to their core essentials. most religions also have an utterly corrupt core. not as corrupt as the scilons, but you know…not perfect. one thing it seemed anonymous was doing during chanology was making a point not to mock the beliefs of the individuals while exposing the corrupt nature of the leadership.
question though, as you are like, the only blog even giving a shit about jenna elfman’s new failboat, do you think that by writing these repetitive articles about how scilon celebs suck and how scientolgy sucks, you’re giving them more attention than they deserve?
Comment by whatever — May 26, 2009 @ 4:43 pm
Christians mocking Scientologists mocking Christians. Oh, the irony. Morons believing in Xenu vs idiots believing in zombie on a stick. Just WHAT is an atheist to do?
Comment by Antoine Bugleboy — May 26, 2009 @ 4:49 pm
Oh, wish I’d known you were including Earl in your article. Would have let you use a shoop I used last week, lol. http://www.url2it.com/opl
Comment by Russian Around — May 26, 2009 @ 5:08 pm
First of all I didn’t say I was a Scientologist.
And second some of you completely missed the point of my response. Which was that hating and badmouthing anybody because of their religious beliefs is completely wrong and even “Un-American”. (as far as religious freedom goes)
And third if someone is teaching you something that you thought was useful knowledge wouldn’t you expect to pay for the materials and the teacher. How much does it cost to go to a college that you respect. And many Christian churches require at least 10% of your income (gross not net) as a “tithe” and then donations for “special projects”.
So I was just saying (in a cynical manner) that maybe most of the hate rhetoric that you hear and read about Scientology is based on hate and not real knowledge.
Concerning all religions I always say, “if you haven’t read their religious materials then how can you say that you understand where they are coming from”?
I know many Scientologist and they seem to be the best people I know and are genuinely concerned for all other people and their well being.
Comment by Will — May 26, 2009 @ 6:07 pm
“First of all I didn’t say I was a Scientologist.”
Ah, but you are a Scientologist, Will, aren’t you?
Comment by Timothy — May 26, 2009 @ 6:50 pm
Um Will, NO Christian church I have EVER heard of *requires* you give 10%. Strongly encouraged? Yes, required NO. Salvation in Christianity is ultimately free.
Comment by D — May 26, 2009 @ 6:58 pm
Will is most certainly a Scientologist, as he is spouting the same tired accusations- verbatim- that can be found on every site critical of Scientology.
Imagine comparing the benefits of a college degree to the ramblings of L Ron Hubbard. Ridiculous. And no Christian church forces anyone to donate. Go walk in to ANY Church/Synagogue/Mosque/Temple in this country and ask them to tell you all of their basic tenents. They will. Not so Scientology. It is nothing short of obscene to charge hundreds of thousands of dollars to learn a “religion’s” beliefs.
Will, why doesn’t Scientology have any food pantries? Why no shelters for the homeless or victims of domestic violence like other religions do? Why does your “church” have no charitable arm? Why do you need a prison camp? Why do you use children as cheap labor and coerce abortions?
As for Jenna Elfman, she is beyond annoying. This show will be about as successful as Jada Pinkett-Smith’s new show, which is to say FAIL.
Comment by Rachel — May 26, 2009 @ 8:12 pm
Will, how am I supposed to read the religious materials if it costs me $300,000 to get ahold of them? I don’t have to spend $300,000 for a Bible. I can go to almost any church in the country and read one of theirs for free.
Comment by justaguy — May 26, 2009 @ 8:44 pm
Get a life people. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, no matter what they are. It’s a fundamental human right.
Attacking others over their beliefs is such a small-minded affair. If you want to find out what Scientology is, talk to a Scientologist. I dare you to.
Comment by Cee — May 26, 2009 @ 9:46 pm
Jenna’s earlier success was predicated on her being young and fresh. Now, she’s neither.
Comment by Xenuxian — May 26, 2009 @ 10:00 pm
Ya know, no matter what side of an argument you are on, or religious beliefs, I can’t imagine anyone could defend the meanness of the person who writes this stuff for Gloss Lips.
It’s not even scandalous gossip, it’s just a bunch of words intended for no other reason than to hurt someone’s feelings, and I find it hard personally that anyone wouldn’t see that.
I mean, isn’t it awfully over the top to even be hurtful actually?
Comment by Jim Warren — May 26, 2009 @ 10:27 pm
Cry me a river Jim. Have you been disconnected from a loved one? Have you had your arm broken by a Scientology thug simply because you wanted to leave your so called “church”? Have you had your wife driven to an abortion clinic because she became pregnant and her “church” doesn’t approve of children? Have you been forced to run around a pole in the desert sun for hours on end because you violated some imaginary code of ethics? HAVE YOU HAD YOUR CHILD DIE BECAUSE YOUR CHURCH DOESN’T BELIEVE IN MODERN MEDICAL SCIENCE?
NO? Then shut the f*ck up you brainwashed asswipe. I will tolerate all KINDS of stupid shit in my comments section, but I will be damned if I will put up with someone calling ME or any Glosslip writer mean. You want mean, go find that asthmatic little dwarf David Miscavige who beats his subordinates if you want mean.
We are trying to help people, you are just a robot.
Get off my site and don’t EVER come back. GO. GET. BE GONE.
Comment by Dawn — May 26, 2009 @ 11:30 pm
Geesh, what a grouch.
Comment by Jim Warren — May 26, 2009 @ 11:52 pm
Dawn, I just wanted to say it’s great that you are back. Your interview with Marc Headley was one of the first things I listened to when first I was getting “out” and was the major impetus for me finding out more. So I thank you. For the record, I happen to know Jim Warren personally and he’s a really good guy and a great painter…and he’s really been looking and trying to sort stuff out for himself..so please..can you give the guy a break? think that all he meant was, Jenna is a Scn. Celebrity Jim is considered a Celeb by the “church” and he is no doubt feeling the sting of being characterized in the same manner. You really won’t find the same kind of person in Jim that you do in the other outspoken Scn. celeb goons.
Comment by Sallee — May 27, 2009 @ 12:08 am
“Attacking others over their beliefs is such a small-minded affair.If you want to find out what Scientology is, talk to a Scientologist. I dare you to.” –Cee
NO ONE HERE, NOT ONE PERSON, HAS ATTACKED A SCIENTOLOGY “BELIEF”.
Scientology is hiding criminal activity such as human trafficking, racketeering and labor violations behind a cloak of “religious freedom.” Exactly what good would it do to “ask a Scientologist” to verify this?
People need to ask, and have asked, law enforcement. If Scientology loses the case in France, it will NOT affect their right to believe anything they want to believe. It WILL change their ability to hide human traficking, racketeering and labor violations behind a cloak of religious freedom. AS IT SHOULD.
Comment by Christopher — May 27, 2009 @ 12:24 am
Jenna Elfman honestly strikes me as having a severe intellectual deficiency, with or without the CO$ influence. I believe the old term was something like “functional retardation.”
Comment by kermit — May 27, 2009 @ 2:02 am
Will, how am I supposed to read the religious materials if it costs me $300,000 to get ahold of them? I don’t have to spend $300,000 for a Bible. I can go to almost any church in the country and read one of theirs for free.
Comment by PB — May 27, 2009 @ 2:18 am
The cult’s criminal behavior springs from the paranoid mind of its founder, so to criticize the behavior of the church is to criticize it’s canon of beliefs. Everything Hubbard wrote is to be considered infallible and correct “tech”. Personally I believe that as American’s we are entitled to believe what ever blows our skirts up, but when a sect is infringing on it’s member’s civil rights the government needs to step in. But what really makes me mock them is their utter humorlessness. The more you disapprove of me and my parodies of Hubbard’s batshit crazy “tech”, the more I like it.
Comment by Artoo45 — May 27, 2009 @ 3:35 am
Evidently Mr. Warren is $cientology’s answer to Thomas Kinkade . . . with cetatceans. Geesh indeed.
Comment by Artoo45 — May 27, 2009 @ 3:44 am
I am grouchy and I am also protective and I know for a fact that “Queen” is NOT mean and cares very deeply about helping people who’ve been hurt by the cult. She and I both believe these Scientologists celebrities are doing the world a major disservice by promoting this cult, this behavior can not and will not be condoned or excused. Does this make us mean, I guess in the eyes of people like Jim and others who might come here criticizing us for “religious intolerance.” I can’t stand Mel Gibson for the same reasons. The man promotes hatred of the Jews and spews B.S. and uses his fame and power to do so.
Comment by Dawn — May 27, 2009 @ 8:08 am
Queen here. The author of this story.
I only speak the truth about Scientology.
It has nothing to do with “bigotry”.
This post is all over the place, and it is early in the AM… so deal with it and excuse the typos and grammar.
First off, I don’t give a rats ass what people believe in, but when an organization is guilty of a myriad of human rights abuses under the guise of a religion, that’s when my claws come out.
Not to mention all the people who have died from not receiving proper care and treatment due to Scientolgy’s claims of being able to “fix” what ails people.
This is a multi billion dollar industry that has illegally infiltrated the US Government, has strong armed the IRS into granting them tax exemption through black mailing, and has a “fake navy” the Sea Org, which pays it’s members WAY below minimum wage, and punishes it’s members with their Rehabiltiation Project Force. (RPF)
Not to mention the family disconection both in and out of the Sea Org, and the coerced abortions within the Sea Org.
All one has to do is watch the tapes of David Miscavige and Tom Cruise to see the danger of this cult.
I remember one tape in particular with Miscavige speaking. He was talking about “pysche busting”, and saying it was like shooting ducks in a pond?
This is a LEADER of a supposed “church” telling it’s members how Scientology has ruined the lives of yet even more psyhciatrists.
Their front group the CCHR, sole purpose is to bring down psyches. To “obliterate psychaitry” in their own words. They lobby themselves as getting kids and people off drugs. They use this fake platform to promote their agenda, of paying their PI’s and OSA and their lawyers.
Scientolgy’s own special goon squad called OSA, (The Operation of Special Affairs) sole purpose is to dig up private information(which is obtained illegally) on psychaitrists and any Scientology critics through their Fair Game policy. They are funded from the donations of their other front groups, Scientology courses, auditing and books and such bought by their unsuspecting cult members.
They have infiltrated into our government, with celebrity lobbying, our school systems with Applied Scholastics, our jail systems with Criminon and Narconon, our businesses with Sterling Managemnet, disaster sites with the vultures of Volunteer Ministers, The “Way to Happiness”, ABLE, and the list goes on. There are HUNDREDS of front groups for Scientology. Why do you think that is so?
Don’t even get me started with their vast amount of real estate holdings. Many of which are buildings sitting as empty shells. The buildings that their members have paid for with good intentions.
AND last but certainly not least, (and I have only touched on a few of Scientology’s crimes and human rights violations), is the practice of mind control used in their auditing sessions and courses. Hence the blind admiration for a dead Sci Fi writer that has been PROVEN to be one of the biggest frauds of all time. The govenment should be investigating the study “tech” being used in Delphi, the Smith’s schools and others. This is beyond SCARY stuff.
Also Scientology has not produced one “OT” or “Clear” since the cult’s start, but yet they have brainwashed their members into thinking that this is possible.
That alone is enough to get my knickers in a bunch.
Some people speak of reform.
I don’t think reform is possible. I have thought about this long and hard. And I dont’ think reform can work within Scientology. Although there are Freezoners, their thinking has been greatly altered, and they are still very much agaist psychiatry. Now don’t get me wrong, I am not a HUGE fan of psychiatry and the over drugging of ANYONE, but psychaitrists are needed and so is medication for many.
Furthermore, if Scientology did not have their slave labor force, they would not be able to have all their books,CDs,ect… printed at a cost they can afford. Nor would they be able to afford taking care of their vast amount of properties. And of course all this work can not be done without mind control and threats of punishment. It has been said that without their slave labor force, Scientology would certainly crumble.
I have just touched on why I write about Scientology in the negative, and there are many more reasons.
I have personally seen people die of cancer, due to the fact that they never received the proper care, and thought Scientology would cure them. I have seen people who have spent thousands and thousands of dollars, and continue to do so, who are getting NOWHERE towards the “Bridge To Freedom”.
All they are doing is spending their hard earned money on auditing and courses, which should be going to themselves and their family members.
Scientology public members are dedicated, and most are very nice people, and they really do believe they are saving the world. They have been taught that all critics of their cult are SP’s. (Suppresive Persons)
Which is very sad, to think this is what they actually think of people who are just using their freedom of speech. Besides the fact that all their money is not going towards what they were promised.
So sorry, my words will NEVER be kind about Scientology.
I am trying to HELP people. I don’t want one more person to get caught into this web of deception, mind control and fraud.
If I get a few haters on the way, then so be it.
Comment by Queen — May 27, 2009 @ 9:07 am
I’ll chime in again Queen. Another great article. I think that in the long run they make a difference. You are part of an army of people who are speaking out. Look at what is happening in France. Locally, our cult office is empty.
Comment by William Hunt — May 27, 2009 @ 9:50 am
Hi Jim Warren, Although I agree that the article is over-the-top in criticism (and excessive in length), beyond the subject of Jenna Elfman and her behavior as a scientologist in Hollywood, I think you missed the point of why it was written. You know as well as I do that the pressure to perform as a celebrity ambassador of sort for Scientology is big time, something you and other longtime celebrity members skillfully managed to evade over the years. Jenna was not there in the earlier years, when Celebrity Center was actually a fun place to be where you could actually bring people to a jam session or an art show without fear that they would be mentally manipulated by the staff to join the membership. The older celebrities like yourself have an advantage over members like Jenn Elfman, in that they are not as approachable to be manipulated by regs. You’ve even managed to not get onto the OT levels, from what I can tell, and that in itself says something about your ability to do what you want, something the average scientologist and nuevo celebrity member is not afforded. You now that some things are not right with how things have been run. Dare to read the current lawsuits by former sea org members charging the church with acts no church should ever get away with. Infinite Complacency blog has all the information and links:
http://infinitecomplacency.blogspot.com/2009/04/14-laura-decrescenzos-lawsuit.html
You might not be able to respond in time to this so you can reply to me at xscilentologist at yahoo.com
Comment by Mary McConnell — May 27, 2009 @ 10:05 am
I wish such an article like this could capture the attention of Jenna Elfman or any elf person in Hollywood who is a Scientologist. I wish Jenna, or one of her friends, would get so outraged by what Dawn wrote as to read it, and start looking up some things about Scientology.
Something must be done to awaken these celeb scilons to the fact that there is a very different side to Scientology than the one they are seeing and experiencing. It isn’t all about; if it is true for you, that’s all that matters.
It’d be like if people, years ago, just wanted to celebrate, buy and advertise Kathie Lee’s clothing line at Walmart, whether it was made by children working in sweatshop labor conditions, or not. Kathie Lee herself kept saying she had no idea of the day-to-day operations of it… But at least when confronted, Kathie Lee saw a way of recapturing her integrity by taking a lead, working with Clinton, to reform sweat shop conditions internationally.
It is probably what she will be remembered for, not as Regis’s witty side kick. Even as that, she was ten times as popular and visible as Jenna Elfman.
Where is the celeb who wants to stand up and reform the child labor abuse and dozens of other issues in Scientology? Where is the celeb who will draw their mind out of Hubbard’s space opera and body Thetan removal, their own “spiritual growth,” long enough to read one story about a child growing up in Scientology?
http://exscientologykids.com/
Comment by Xenuxian — May 27, 2009 @ 10:20 am
Well, Queen & Glosslip, you must be doing something right. I don’t think I’ve ever seen this number of cult members come out of the woodwork in a comments section of an article on any site. It’s got to be 50% Scientologist comments on this article. Be proud of your accomplishment!
Comment by Kristen — May 27, 2009 @ 10:21 am
All the credit goes to Queen. She is passionate about exposing the cult, I am just glad I have a forum to provide for this goal.
Comment by Dawn — May 27, 2009 @ 11:26 am
Mary,
Hi. Yes I do what I want, and have read and heard it all. I know there are many extreme views on the subject of Scientology. Before I walked into a mission I was bombarded with opinions, experiences, and all that.
Being an artist I guess I am just interested that anyone even thinks at all and has an opinion, such as dawn’s and Queen etc., even if I find it over the top, ridiculous even at times or whatever.
Everyone in the world on every subject, particularly religion and politics, has a different opinion, a different experience with things so out of interest I read it all, watch Fox news while I paint which really is full of diverse views.
And from my experience, and the only criticism I would take personal is that scientologist don’t or can’t think freely.
In some cases maybe but that is the case with the whole world, I grew up in school with that attitude and I rebelled as many did in the 60s.
I can be just as bratty in scientology as well if some individual tells me I have to do such and such because while yes there are rules, standards and expectations, there is plenty of scientology teaching in regards to having your own thoughts and opinions and like anywhere in the world, sometimes you might have to stand up for yourself. Maybe it’s easier for me because I am a “Celebrity” but I think if anyone in Scientology, or elsewhere, just stood up for what they think, not go into battle mode, they can do what they want pretty much.
So I avoid the argument of trying to prove whose right or wrong in these “HOT” topics and just comment once in awhile for “kicks”.
I am kinda rambling here as I am busy inbetween, and have no particular point other than to respond to your nice letter, I was wondering this.
I wondered if outside the scientology subject if I would think Dawn and friends likeable or get along with them socially, as they handle things so differantly than I do.
If you are enemies of someone or a group it’s because there is obviously some big difference, disagreement and it’s seems the over the top hostile attitude above would only widen the wedge, if you know what I mean.
So are they trying to just express their anger or whatever about what they feel is true or are they trying to make a point that people on the other side might listen to and see if it is so or not.
I just somtimes feel that on both sides, the war attitude is a bigger problem than all the things being said in an insulting way.
That’s just me though.
Thanks,
Jim
Comment by Jim Warren — May 27, 2009 @ 12:36 pm
“how am I supposed to read the religious materials if it costs me $300,000 to get ahold of them? I don’t have to spend $300,000 for a Bible. I can go to almost any church in the country and read one of theirs for free.”
Wow! I don’t know where you’re shopping but I saw on ebay that you could get a brand new set of all of the basic books (16 books still in the shrink wrap) for less than $50.
And once again I’ll say… I’ve been to a Church of Scientology but I haven’t been there for many years.
And like I said before, how can you actually say anything intelligent about any subject until you have read that subject. (concerning any religion or even science)
If you only read what some angry person said and take that as the only facts you will remain ignorant.
So what I’m saying is, read the bible all the way through, then make your decision about it. Read the works of Confucius and the Buddha, then make your decision about it. Read the books by L Ron Hubbard, then make your decisions about it.
I’m just saying that first hand knowledge is always better than second hand. (always)
Comment by Will — May 27, 2009 @ 12:49 pm
Jim,
First off, I want to apologize for attacking you in my earlier comment, I shouldn’t post comments while watching the Cavaliers lose, bad combo.
Ultimately, I felt I had to defend Queen, who wrote this article, because you clearly have her and her intentions completely wrong. She is a very KIND person who deeply wants to shed light on a dangerous and evil cult which has hurt many, many people.
I checked out your site and it’s obvious you are a talented artist with a passion for what you do. So is Beck, whose music I absolutely love. This however, does not give him, or you for that matter, carte blanche in promoting a “religion” that oppresses its member and deceives the public. If we lay down and allow Scientology to get away with the abusive behavior they’ve gotten away with, then we are no better than the Germans who looked the other way while the Nazis rounded up their neighbors and shipped them off to concentration camps.
It may not be a popular view to attack a “religious” group, but my job is not to be popular, but rather to shed light on the dark recesses of society. I encourage you to look into Scientology outside of what THEY tell you and more at what the outside world sees and knows about this group.
Thanks and you are of course, welcome to stay, so long as you understand we are NOT going to agree on this subject.
Also, I am not mean…most of the time
Comment by D — May 27, 2009 @ 1:18 pm
Jim,
I think you said something interesting about whether you would get along with the bloggers here if you talked to them outside of this particular subject. I don’t know why you were reading this particular site today, but if you were reading it by chance only, I recommend you peruse it a little bit longer and may find the answer to your question. I can honestly say that I don’t necessarily agree with Queen very often, but she actually has plenty of positive things to say about people and events. Her posting on The Pope of Greenwich Village is an example of why I began coming to this website. In contrast to most other celebrity gossip sites, this site actually reflects an appreciation for people, and celebrities, and is not necessarily negative. So answering your question, if it were directed at me, I might say something like, I may not get along with the bloggers here on an every day basis, but for sure I respect what they are doing and believe that they have strong beliefs about it. Most people have opinions, and people with different opinions could still be called friends.
Queen and Dawn take up the Scientology issue because they feel very strongly about it, and have articulated good cause for the strength of their beliefs. I admire that you are willing to read those beliefs, even though contrary to your own beliefs on the subject.
Comment by P2 — May 27, 2009 @ 1:24 pm
Thanks for another great article, Dawn. Thought I’d respond to Jim Warren, Scientology Celebrity.
Jim: You were featured in Celebrity Issue 353, promoting the “How to Confront and Shatter Suppression Course:
http://suppressiveperson.org/spdl/images/stories/promo/celebrity-353-cvr.jpg
[quote]
Celebrity: Having PTS tech under your belt, do you operate differently now?
Jim: I never really have to think about weeding out people any more. My art is in over 40 galleries right now, and I do about 50 art shows a year. So, I’m around a lot of people–almost everybody in the business. I don’t even have to think about the application of PTS tech anymore. I just instinctively know who I want to talk to and who I don’t. It’s not something where I have to sit down and think “Oh, I shouldn’t be dealing with this person.”
I don’t even attract them any more. It doesn’t happen. Those people that used to buzz around me like a swarm of bees, it’s like they don’t exist anymore. I think they just know when they come around and start talking to me, I don’t look like I’m going to fall for their little game anymore. My instincts guide me now because I know the tech so well. It’s just second nature.
You know most people are good intentioned, and I just deal with them.
I want to mention also that there is constructive criticism and destructive criticism and after the course, I could truly tell which is which.”[/quote]
So when you criticized Dawn’s article Jim, did you think about your comment before you made it? Some time has passed now, so what do you think, was it constructive?
And now that I’m buzzing around you, and I do seem to exist, let’s all see what your instincts guide you to do, now that you know your PTS tech so well.
Comment by Caroline Letkeman — May 27, 2009 @ 1:55 pm
“And from my experience, and the only criticism I would take personal is that scientologist don’t or can’t think freely.”
You know, Jim, we probably wouldn’t be saying or thinking it if that view wasn’t reinforced by the fact that you all pretty much sound almost exactly the same in your comments.
There are certain phrases, word combinations and paragraph structures that are a dead giveaway, even when $cientologists like Will try to come off as a “joe anybody.”
The saddest part is how many of you don’t realize this.
“I just somtimes feel that on both sides, the war attitude is a bigger problem than all the things being said in an insulting way.”
At least on our side, the “war attitude” isn’t part of some “scripture” like $cientology’s SP handling policy and the infamous “fair game” policy that we still see so much evidence of.
Some of us choose to do the “good cop” approach and some of us choose to do the “bad cop” thing. I like to do a little of both.
We wouldn’t have to do either approach if $cientology wasn’t so NASTY and ABUSIVE towards it’s critics.
$cientology pulled it in, Jim. You’ve brought it on yourselves. What goes around, comes around. Karma is a b*tch, and all that.
If you don’t like the fact that the abuses others have suffered at the hands of the organization you support are coming back around on you, then quit whining and do something about it! Try to encourage change in your organization to make amends with society, quit lying, own up to it’s past crimes and abuses and reform. Try listening to what some of the critics have to say and look at the FACTS instead of just copping out and dismissing it all as “hate” or “bigotry.”
Or better yet, just get out while you still can. There is always the freezone. There is also finding your own spiritual path.
Comment by liz — May 27, 2009 @ 1:55 pm
Hey Will, I’ve read quite a bit of $cientology literature, and nowhere in there do I find ANY justification for the abuses commited by the $cientology organization.
Underdstanding “scripure” is not necessary to recognize abuse.
This isn’t about anybody’s ridiculous beliefs, this is about about the abuses and crimes of the organization.
Just like one doesn’t need to read the bible to know that children were being abused, one doesn’t need to read L. Ron’s insane ramblings to understand court documents of your organization’s criminal past and present.
Comment by liz — May 27, 2009 @ 2:10 pm
I think the new campaign to oblitorate scientology should be what someone else said in this thread, “tic Tock”.
Whenever you encounter a scientologist just start saying tik…tock.
The first step in dismantaling the cult is to petition the US goverment to end the tax status of the so called “church”.
Without the tax exempt status they will struggle and hopefully their books open to the light.
On another subject…. look at davey boy misguided on the scientology web page… he has bright blue eyes…..and on interveiws and other pics his eyes are brown. weird……
Comment by james buchan — May 27, 2009 @ 2:24 pm
Will you don’t need to read Dianetics to be critical of the Church of Scientology’s unfair tax exempt status.
You don’t need to read “The Science of Survival” to be critical of The Church of Scientology’s disconnection policy.
You don’t need to read “Introduction to Scientology Ethics” to be critical of Scientology’s harrassment and abuse of anyone who speaks out against them by way of thier “Fair Game Policy”.
You don’t need to read “The Fundamentals of Thought” to be critical of Scientology’s abuse of minors in the Sea Org.
Do you need to read the Bible to be critical of the Catholic Church’s covering up of the fact that some of thier priests were abusing minors?
We aren’t criticising Scientology’s beliefs, we are criticizing THE ACTIONS OF THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY.
Actually I’ve read some of L. Ron Hubbard’s writings. Such as this one.
“The purpose of the suit is to harass and discourage rather than to win. The law can be used very easily to harass, and enough harassment on somebody who is simply on the thin edge anyway, well knowing that he is not authorized, will generally be sufficient to cause his professional decease. If possible, of course, ruin him utterly.”
L. Ron Hubbard
A Manual on the Dissemination of Material (1955
Comment by Marcab Soldier — May 27, 2009 @ 2:25 pm
Scientology is not religion. It is a mind control cult.
http://www.whyweprotest.net
Comment by david miscaviage's liquor cabinet — May 27, 2009 @ 2:36 pm
Okay Dawn #41, that’s cool.
(I see you watch TV while you work also.)
Comment by Jim Warren — May 27, 2009 @ 2:49 pm
@ Jim Warren: Y’know, I’ve had my share of name-calling done on this site when I’ve tried to put a little balance into the Scientology debate, because I consider myself someone who tries to see every side of an issue as well, but you totally lost me when you wrote “watch Fox news while I paint which really is full of diverse views.”
Believing in Scientology is one thing, but watching Fox News for it’s “diverse views” is CRAZY!!!!
Comment by J.R. LeMar — May 27, 2009 @ 5:36 pm
Jim..as a great admirer of your art for many many years, I’m hoping that you will really use that inquiring and unique mind of yours and take a good good look at what you ARENT being told by your ‘church”.
As a Scio celeb, I’m sure you are constantly “love bombed” and I’m also sure that if you took the time to review things not only online but also in your own life, you will notice contradictions. There are so many! You have children Jim..have they been recruited? Have you been pressured into getting them on staff or in the SO? They must be around the ages now. Were any lies told? THINK!
I’m going to suggest a blog for you to read. It’s written by someone who was in the SO for over 36 yrs and at Int. Base for the majority of that time. It’s http://counterfeitdreams.blogspot.com/ . A very touching story of one man’s dreams of “Clearing the Planet”. With that mind of yours, I’m sure you will be able to see the truth in his words.
You have the power to effect a change..perhaps you’ll use it. You DO know the truth…
Comment by Sallee — May 27, 2009 @ 7:24 pm
@Jim,
Having spent many years as a practicing scientologist, I know that MOST scientologists do not and cannot think freely. It simply doesn’t happen. At least not where the subject of scientology is concerned. A “true believer” does not question anything that comes from LRH and if he does voice a bit of dissent or disagreement he is sent to word-clearing, sec-checking, ethics. Yes, I suppose a scientologist could think freely on OTHER subjects and could question how things are.
It is my opinion that you are treated differently because you are a “celebrity”, that is, you are not pressured the way average public scientologists are. The average public is hounded mercilessly for money, more money and then more money. It’s obscene. And it never ever lets up. Ever.
There are court documents, affidavits and other factual evidence that proves Hubbard was a liar and a con man, a fake, a fraud and a wife-beater. There is also plenty of factual evidence about David Miscavige’s crimes and abuses.
Look, the bottom line is you are giving your support to a criminal organization. The organization is under fire and is crumbling. If you want to DO scientology, and it doesn’t appear that you do (when was the last time you took a service, course, had auditing??), then go to the FreeZone.
Jim, you don’t need them — but they need you.
Comment by exscientologist — May 27, 2009 @ 7:39 pm
Jim,
Queen here. I see you are a wonderful talented artist.
Please take your hard earned money and spend it on yourself and your family. Do not let Scientology take another red cent of yours.
Do the leg work Jim. Find out what all the critics and ex members are talking about.
Research, research, research.
You do not need Scientology. You do not need a “church telling you that normal emotions are low on the tone scale. You do not need a “church” telling you that anyone who exercises their freedom of speech is an SP.
Make the move. It’s a beautiful world.
Please do not get your children involved in Scientology. Give them a choice.
Look, you have to at least notice that perfect strangers are trying to help you. That has to mean SOMETHING to you?
I AM TRYING TO HELP YOU.
Take the leap and get out, you will forever thank me.
Comment by Queen — May 27, 2009 @ 7:49 pm
BTW, I actually read Dianetics and The Principles of Scientology, and could not believe what gibberish they were. Its like reading Children’s books. And Dianetics (to the extent it works) is merely Regression Therapy, originally conceived by Freud, improved by Freezoners and used by a competent psychiatrist (yes, a psychiatrist) as described in a fascinating book called “Many Masters, Many Lives”.
So what’s so special about it?
Comment by Jim — May 27, 2009 @ 8:42 pm
J.R. # 49
I am trying to avoid getting into an endless chat with all the comments simply because of lack of time, but I have to say you are right about watching Fox news for diverse views. That was dumb.
All they do is Obama bash 24 HRs and it didn’t seem to be like that before so time to change channels.
I know the next comment will be “Time to change Churches” but Oh Well.
Comment by Jim Warren — May 27, 2009 @ 9:15 pm
Hi Jim, thanks for the thoughtful reply. And while you think you “know the next comment will be “Time to change Churches” but Oh Well.”, I think it’s more like a matter of ” Time to get the facts on both sides of the issues, no matter what anyone tells you”. Only then will you know the truth. It’s truth which sets us free.
Here are 2 links to documents and audio tapes which prove that we were lied to about Ron’s history and that Ron was not the man we were made to believe he was, respectively
Documents Of A Lifetime – the uncensored L. Ron Hubbard papers
http://www.spaink.net/cos/LRH-bio/lrhpaper.htm
Operation Clambake present: Hubbard Audio Collection
These are audio files in MP3 , WAV or RealAudio formats. The recording is actually L Ron Hubbard talking!
http://www.xenu.net/archive/multimedia.html
Let me know what you think about them after you have looked them over, when you have a chance. You have my email address.
Sincerely,
Mary McConnell
Comment by Mary McConnell — May 28, 2009 @ 10:48 am
Oh, Jim, one more thing. You wrote:
“And from my experience, and the only criticism I would take personal is that scientologist don’t or can’t think freely.
In some cases maybe but that is the case with the whole world, I grew up in school with that attitude and I rebelled as many did in the 60s.
I can be just as bratty in scientology as well if some individual tells me I have to do such and such because while yes there are rules, standards and expectations, there is plenty of scientology teaching in regards to having your own thoughts and opinions and like anywhere in the world, sometimes you might have to stand up for yourself. Maybe it’s easier for me because I am a “Celebrity” but I think if anyone in Scientology, or elsewhere, just stood up for what they think, not go into battle mode, they can do what they want pretty much.”
It’s obvious you have never been forced into ethics or ‘gang bang’ sec checked as I am many others were for just asking questions or speaking up without being disrespectful. Back in the 80’s, this gang-bang se checking was done for hours and days at a time, without food or sleep. Scientology’s interrogation and enforced reging tactics occurs to this day, but more so behind closed doors since too many people left the church when it was done as a gestapo style message to the field. For many current members, questioning things or speaking up is just not a possibility, for the consequences are too great. Loss of contact with friends and family ( disconnection ) and threat of being Fair Gamed ( ah, one’s confidential PC info is not so confidential after all)is oppressive and I only have compassion for scientologists stuck in this seemingly neverending cycle of indecision.
Continue to do what you need but don’t keep blinders on for fear of consequences. So, yes, seek the truth and it will set you free from deception.
Comment by Mary McConnell — May 28, 2009 @ 11:12 am
$cientology posts are fail and obvious. Jenna looks freaking hot though in that whore purple mini skirt… It’s a damn shame they scrambled her brain… CO$FAILS.. GIVE JASON LEE BACK NAO!!!!!!!
Comment by LOL!!! — May 28, 2009 @ 11:33 am
Mary,
Yes I would agree that what you described sounds like what should not be, sounds completely counter-productive, but that is just based on how it sounds.
I didn’t see it, which doesn’t mean it didn’t happen just like that, would never put blinders on as I have always liked to know the truth, both sides of a story and things like that.
I don’t mean to sound naive, or even “brainwashed” as some like to suggest, but I have this nasty habit of having to see something before I can completely believe a story, but I would, if in the position, investigate something that I heard that was just not obviously right.
But I am not in the position so can’t really say much about it, other than it “sounds” bad. Whatever is the problem I guess I would rely on simply hoping that it gets worked out.
Okay?
Thanks,
Jim
Comment by Jim Warren — May 28, 2009 @ 1:23 pm
Come on Jim Warren, you can do it. Read Bare-Faced Messiah on the Xenu website, and learn about the REAL life of the founder of your “religion.” It is written by an award-winning journalist, who did a great job of putting together the whole history of Scientology.
Then put 2 and 2 together, and get beyond, “if it is true for u, then it is true.”
Hubbard, in his own voice, can be heard saying he’s been to the Van Allen belt, and almost got hit by a train on Venus, and is not from this planet…start finding out who he really was. What he was like as a kid. What his school friends and associates said of him. Unless you have an IQ below 70 or have ingested too much lead white, you should be able to grasp the facts, and stop living in celebrity scientology land.
Comment by Xenuxian — May 28, 2009 @ 1:35 pm
Jim..re Your answer to Mary’s post..about having to see it for yourself. I’ll tell you what, if that’s the case, go into your local org and let them know that you’ve been on the internet and are confused about some contradictory things you read. Just say you are confused and don’t know what to think and want some help sorting things out. Then watch what happens…you’ll get a dose of what Mary is talking about. It happened to someone I personally know quite well..she went into the org, said she was confused about some things she’d read and wanted some help. The help they gave her was reverse auditing that drove her psychotic and almost ruined her life. You can read her story or her actual deposition to the court online. http://exscn.net/content/view/91/101/ or http://ecclesiopath.xenu.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=63&Itemid=28
Comment by Sallee — May 28, 2009 @ 5:19 pm
Jim won’t look at the facts, he’s terrified of the truth. You see, he thinks he’s a special snowflake in the master race alien cult called Scientology.
Facing the truth means accepting he’s just like the rest of us; mortal and imperfect. In a word. Human.
But no, he’ll continue to deny, defend and remain trapped by the delusional world he calls theta. He’ll continue to ignore his cult’s fair game, disconnection, forced abortions and human trafficking practices and policies.
I’d feel sorry for him if I didn’t believe his denial is driven by ego and is blind eye self serving.
Comment by Chimchim — May 28, 2009 @ 7:07 pm
You guys are making me work here, your hard to ignore.
Mary, I will check it out, really.
I must say though I don’t believe there isn’t anything I haven’t heard, or similar things if more. I heard things before I walked into a mission, which was right after the FBI raids. Saw GO and missions fighting and always have, and still want to know things to my satisfaction and maybe it’s because I am a “Snowflake” nobody bugs me about it.
So sorry but I liked Scientology from the start, what I learned and did and it sticks with me when handling situations that I rememebr not handling so well before.
So, it seems rather dumb of me to give up what I use that I like because of what I hear that I don’t see, isn’t it?
And of course, liking what I have done I want Scientology to be recognized, popular, something you do or not, no big deal. That’s important to me, more than for myself and if David or anyone does things to make it not excepted I would throw a fit, more than they could throw a fit with me.
So if someone uses the world criminal and crimes, it just words unless proof and if proof then take to court.
But as I said, I am not going to throw away what I am happy about just because of all this stuff, that although certainly some bad handling have happened, much of what I have heard for years I know for a fact is misunderstood or is way ridiculous as you may know, which makes it hard to know what to actually believe, if you know what I mean.
Some I know was made up, twisted, taken out of context etc and so if David is beating up the execs and stuff I would have to see the cell phone video of that to believe, sorry.
I like the truth as much as the next guy and the truth is I like a bunch of what Ron did, would like it still if Michael Jackson did it, but if I knew someone was doing bad stuff contradictory I would as I said throw a big fit too, maybe more tactfully.
Comment by Jim Warren — May 28, 2009 @ 9:39 pm
What about forced abortions for sea org members Jim?
Disconnection of families?
Fair gaming of critics?
Human trafficking?
Slave wages?
Fraud?
Jim are you there?
What about these?
I see, as long as you, and cult celebs like you, get the cult smoke blown up your ass the crimes can be ignored and you can continue to live in the make believe world the cult seduced you into.
Comment by Chimchim — May 28, 2009 @ 10:10 pm
Jim, you say “So, it seems rather dumb of me to give up what I use that I like because of what I hear that I don’t see, isn’t it?”
There is plenty you do not see in Scientology Jim. But you believe everything about it.
Why do you beleive all of what you don’t see in Scientology, but you won’t belive in all you dont see in what critics are trying to tell you?
How does that make any sense?
And frankly, I don’t really know what you mean about not seeing??
All you have to do is read ex members testimonies, that should be enough proof right there.
Show me an OT with powers that an upper Scientologist is suppossed to have.
Show me an actual CLEAR.
Scientology claims clears do not get colds. You know that is a lie.
Scientology claims they can cure many ailments, you have to know that is also a lie.
And that is just grazing the surface.
Jim, go read, go learn, open your eyes. It’s all out there waiting for you to discover that you have been totally had by Scientology.
It’s nothing to be ashamed of. You were pulled in, learned some techniques that helped you to communicate more, and you were not pressured into climbing the bridge.
Tell me Jim how much has Scientology cost you? Money your children will never see.
How much more are you willing to spend on something that can’t be proven, and something YOU CAN’T SEE?
Comment by Queen — May 28, 2009 @ 10:34 pm
I said, just to be clear about this, I know what I know for myself that I have gotten from using Scientology, and it would make no sense to give that up because of what other people are saying have happened that are wrong or bad. Things that other people said they saw or happened to them, but that I didn’t see myself, or experience.
Does that make sense?
If you read some things that cleared up some confusions about things bugging you, got some auditing that got rid of crap that nothing else was helping with, would you be so inclined to condemn it just because there seemed to be some things with some other people to the contrary?
It’s a drag that some people have not had a good experience or didn’t do very well for whatever reason, but lots are happy, in the sea org, in public. Why can’t it be that the truth is it works for some, not for others, who knows why or whatever.
And who ever said anything about super powers in the sense that some people are talking about. I didn’t see anywhere it says you can walk through walls turn into Spiderman.
If I was on your side Queen, and I do think you are a good writer by the way, my advice would be to not be so condemning of everything Scientology as it looks overkill and makes the average person think it is just bias or grudges if you know what I mean.
It’s like saying all of Obama is bad or all of Bush is bad or every Black person or white or japanese is bad, which right away in general is not true and lessens the credibility of the writer, in my opinion and I think they tech that it reporter school most likely.
And I would like to mention that if something helps, I don’t see how tat is wasted money, especially if it helps you be in a better frame of mind to make more money, although I realize the opposite is true. Those that did not feel it helped would feel money down the drain and I wish that weren’t the case any time because that certainly is not the general purpose.
Comment by Jim Warren — May 28, 2009 @ 11:52 pm
And please edit that last letter for me. It’s past my bed time. (Yes, clears do have bedtimes)
Comment by Jim Warren — May 29, 2009 @ 12:11 am
If Scientology wants to be considered a religion, they should act like the others. All their members should understand all the main beliefs. They should accept criticism, not punish the critics. What is given to them should go back out to all members. They should not charge to be saved, cleared, or whatever.
You don’t need to give money to the Catholics to be saved, you just need to believe in Jesus. They will talk to you about Jesus, and people who leave the Church are not punished and welcomed back if they choose to return. I had a former monk as a teacher in high school, and he has since returned after the death of his wife, a former nun. The one book I did not have to buy at my Catholic high school was the Bible. The school gave copies to the kids who needed them, and to all prospective, visiting students. My Lutheran middle school was the same way, only without the monks and nuns.
“But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.” Luke 6:35 (NIV)
I am not a Christian. I worship the Celtic deities. Go Macha Go.
Comment by dizzy — May 29, 2009 @ 1:18 am
Oh dear Jim. I am afraid I understood you the first time around, about stopping something that helps you.
What you are bascially saying is that it’s ok to do business with say the mafia, for instance, (no disrepect intended) as long as they have helped you?
Or the KKK?
Even though you havn’t actually seen their crimes first hand?
You know the mafia and the KKK are bad by what you have read, right? I think it is pretty safe to say that you havn’t dealt with the mafia or the KKK first hand. right?
And bascially you wouldn’t willingly do busines with these corrupt and dangerous organizations. right?
But in a sense, you do!
Why are you willing to stay and support a corrupt organization, just because it helps you?
What you are saying, is that you dont care if Scientology is corrupt and ruins other people’s lives, as long as YOU can be helped and it doesn’t effect you?
What you don’t understand is that by you giving them money, YOU are resposible for funding an abusive corrupt organization. YOU are HELPING them commit human rights abuses, human trafficking, tax evasion and so on.Without money they cannot survive! Just like any other organization.
How are your NOT supporting these abuses if you are contributing money to the organization that doles them out?
Again Jim, I am trying to help you see the light. I myself will not buy products if a company did something I did’t like. I will not shop at K Mart due to their policies with their employees, even though their prices are good.
Get it???
If you are not willing to look at the small print of Scientology, which is all the YouTube videos, online documents, and ex member testimonies, then you are blindly supporting and following an organization for the small fact that they help you.
And as far as my writing goes and being biased about Scientlogy, yes you are right. I am biased against Scientologists. Not for what they have been convinced to believe in, but for supporting a criminal organization that hurts it’s members.
I will continue to try to help people who are not able to help themselves by opening their eyes, and for those who simply can’t, because they are trapped within the Sea Org or staff. If I can save people from the grips of the cult, and it takes writing biased articles, to either make people wake up or take notice, then that’s what I will continue to do.
I hope some day I receive a letter form you Jim, saying you have left Scientology.
Like I said before… you will forever thank me Jim. Not only for you, but for your family’s sake. Your children.
That I can promise you.
Comment by Queen — May 29, 2009 @ 11:57 am
Queen,
I do believe you are speaking with the best of intentions in what you believe, as do I.
I know the mafia and KKK are bad because that is what they blatantly preach. That is their philosophy and that is proven in court, on video tapes all the time. People join because they think like that.
If, like I said, you or anyone consider Scientology a “Criminal” organization that commit crimes “daily”, I would want to see proof on that, wouldn’t you?.
The church as total policy of not breaking any laws of the land and me questioning them they have not had any problems with ever, but from the beginning, when I broke any law I was immediately handled, in a good way, why that is not good for me or anyone.
The church still stands because of it’s basic policy and tech that helps one do better, and if that isn’t occurring, then something is “Out”
If David or anyone in charge was proven by law of doing illegal things I can guarantee by far most people wouldn’t leave, they would just “throw the bums out”
So I would suggest rather than trying to get people to leave, I would gather proof of illegal actions and go for it if there is proof.
Do you get my point, the difference here between Scientology and KKK? The church is against those activities, especially illegal ones and Scientologist wouldn’t tolerate it if proven.
Time will tell whose right or wrong for sure.
Comment by Jim Warren — May 29, 2009 @ 12:28 pm
Oh dear. Again Jim. The proof IS everywhere. But you have to be willing to see it, and read it.
Why do you think that actual documents, acutual tesitmonies from ex members, Hubbard’s debunked war records and so on is not enough proof?
What the hell more proof do you need?
And what about Mary Sue Hubbard getting arrested with the other Scientolgists for infiltration in the US government all those years back? That’s all on record.
How about all the ex members who settled out of court? The ex members who tell of their bad experiences of being raped,abused, and more?
The illegal proof is already gathered Jim, but if you don’t read it, then how can know about it?
Maybe that’s what you are hoping for? Dont ask, dont’ tell?
You have a computer. Look up Scientology crimes, Scientology abuses. Unless you have a “net nanny” on your computer(which you may have installed with the Scientology CD they gave out a while back to set up your online scienotlogy web page?)
Yes…. when you installed the CD, it istalled a net nanny on some members computers. So it would block out sites and key words they didn’t want you to find.
Go to exscientlogkids.com
READ
I don’t understand for the life of me why you are saying ther is no proof. It boggles my mind. And if you truly believe that there is no proof and you believe EVERYTHING that Scientology tells you,then sorry, you have been totally brainwashed, and unable to accept anything critical what so ever.
Of course perhaps you refuse to look because you will be labeld PTS? And will have to audit that out? WHY is this ok with you? If you read critical things and mention you have doubts at your next auditing session….see what happens.
Why is this acceptable behavior for a “church”?
It’s NOT!
Your are afraid Jim, and that is not only WRONG, it is SAD.
End of conversation, I have given you advice. To discuss this any further would be to only repeat myself. I want to help, but you can’t help someone who refuses to look beyond what he has been taught. I DID.
I was bought up a Catholic. When I was old enough to finally understand it, it wasn’t for me. But I went through all the services,confirmation, communion and all the other BS. And even back then there was always something that told me it was just plain not for me and a bunch of bull. I looked into it at age 13. Even though I was taught I would go to hell, I STILL looked into it, and found out that it simply was BS.
AND FURTHER MORE ….IT WAS ALL FREE.
I did not let fear rule me. I left when I felt things didn’t add up.
Comment by Queen — May 29, 2009 @ 12:53 pm
Queen,
My story is the opposite of yours. I grew up outside Scientology, heard the horror stories, met someone’s parents who were kicked out of the church who were staff, 1978. They were nice, told me what they feel. Heard Hubbard had more money than a whole country and all sorts of things.
I read Dianetics and it made sense to me and I wanted it, used it an found “it was for me”
Later the “ex” people I knew would ask how it’s going and say Hi and all that.
My point is I don’t think many of you guys on your side are willing to look at both sides, see if some or much of what you hear are isolated incidents, things gone over the line, etc etc.
Screw ups, Mary Sue breaking the law 30 years ago, all that, does that add up to a “criminal organization” which implies people at the top sitting around scheming all sorts of illegal and underhanded destructive acts that are hidden from the outside?
Is that what some people are saying is happening or are they speculating?
Sorry, really, but aside from me personally, it will take more than that to convince anyone of what you say. The internet is a cess-pool of people coming up with all kinds of dirt on anyone and everything and the mainstream news would jump on the scandal in a second if you can come up with better proof than some stories from EXs and some lawsuits and stuff.
I know it’s frustrating if you take this as a cause and want people to see what you see, but I have been seeing that plus more longer than you have and I have been in both sides and I just speak for what I have concluded, as have you.
I really do welcome any actual scandal exposed in the church as I don’t want any of those things happening, or people doing any of that stuff. And I mean the Criminal Activity things.
And I am not in fear of what I say in session or out. All kinds of things, questions have come up as it’s part of what needs to get sorted out for yourself.
I think you are taking some stories and taking them as a total fact that it is like that for all people, without questioning the mottifs of some who are saying it.
Some may be jerks and some may really feel they were treated wrong but the bottom line is you can’t tell for sure what is always behind what anyone says.
I know some are lieing and revengeful and exaggerate like crazy, others I just don’t know and won’t judge them.
Okay?
Comment by Jim Warren — May 29, 2009 @ 1:48 pm
No.
It’s not Ok Sorry.
A good place for you to START reading , is by going here:
http://www.skeptictank.org/csindex.htm
Also do some research into cult experts,who can explain exactly why the techniques used by Scientology are in fact brain washing techniques.
This page will show you some stuff.
http://www.xenu-directory.net/practices/brainwashing1.html
and here:
http://www.xenu.net/archive/infopack/7.htm
If that is not enough to start you out, then I don’t know what is.
It is not a website full of made up lies as you were told to believe.
And again Jim, if you simply won’t acknowledge what you are reading as fact, then it’s safe to say that anything you read that is anti Scientology you are simply going to deny as it having any validity.
I wish you luck and help out of the cult. I hope you and your family have a swift exit out and save your money for your children’s future. You don’t need to PAY for salvation.
It’s not salvation. It’s communication courses and auditing which are geared towards brainwashing and making David Miscavige even richer while supporting a criminal organization.
Comment by Queen — May 29, 2009 @ 4:21 pm
Queen, you’ve done your best, you cannot give someone a conscience. Something here does not add up. I also noticed the dichotomy of jims statements. This argument is made to be circular. Who cares about this guy. He’s prob old and old people suffer from the don’t care attitude; if they have to lift a finger to get to google its too much work/I’m too busy/no one told me.
KKK and Mafia analogies you put forward are more valid if you are IN either organization. Try to tell a mafia family that they need to stop their criminal behaviour or the KKK to stop being racist. There are people out there that have no conscience and ignore other people’s suffering if it benefits themselves in some way.
Your job is well done in the sense that you inspire many people like myself to come here to get more info on the cult for whatever our individual reasons are and to keep on digging and questioning. And your style is great. I, for one, like your passion.
I am grateful for the info you provide, because knowledge is power and I share what I find out as do many. I’m confident that nobody I encounter will get pulled in. I have been researching and fact checking for a long time and the only false or questionable material I have found has been coming from the Scientology side. example – Ida Campburn, terrorist? Or DM’s mominlaw… suicide by 4 shotgun blasts to the chest? Quentin Hubbard? Sean Lonsdale? Jett Travolta? Lisa McPherson? LRH even, for that matter. Or Paulette Cooper and the fingerprints plot, only to be used again to prove LRH was not dead. I mean come on.
Also, how do we know that ‘jum warren’ is the guy who owns the website he’s linking to? My experience says don’t believe what you see. There is a history of exaggerated self importance and identity theft going on.
Sorry I’m skeptical. But for all we know this guy could be the updated version of terryeo, or some people sitting at computers saying “its your turn to answer Jill.”
I see that things are evolving as Jim suggests and the proof is all being linked together on the internet by someones hard work. The internet is a beautiful thing!
Happy Friday!
Comment by Mom — May 29, 2009 @ 4:22 pm
And more thing Jim,
if you read ALL what I told you and still think Scientology is not guilty of crimes, then consider the case of the Freewinds. Lawrence Woodcraft reported to Scientology that the Freewinds had asbestos back in 2001. But Scientology allowed its members,crew members and its member’s children to sail regardless of the warnings until the Curacoa government finally sealed it may of 2008.That means Scientology allowed members to sail for seven years after they were told about it. Worse than that, it had been sailing since 1987.
Now if you think THAT is ethical. I don’t know what to say.
Here is his afidavit:
http://www.xenutv.com/interviews/lawrence-freewinds.htm
and here is one of MANY reports of the Freewinds being sealed:
http://insurancenewsnet.com/article.asp?n=1&neID=200805023600.3_33bc000d60868fe7
Bottom line is, Scientology put it’s members and members children, and their crew in harms way. WHY?Next you will say that mesothelioma can be audited out. If you have been on the Freewinds, I hope your exposure was slight.
Here is some information on abestos. And by the way, the Freewinds had the most dangerous kind. BLUE asbestos. Also called Crocidolite – (Also known as riebeckite or blue asbestos) Composed of straight fibers, most crocidolite comes from southern Africa and Australia. It is believed to be the most toxic form of all asbestos minerals.
http://www.asbestos.com/asbestos/
Comment by Queen — May 29, 2009 @ 5:27 pm
“Next you will say that mesothelioma can be audited out.”
Yes, at $1,000 an hour. And don’t take aspitin–be audited for $1,000 an hour. CoS gets so much credit for being anti-drug, but it makes them $.
Comment by Jim — May 30, 2009 @ 1:15 pm
Hey, I liked My Mother The Car! What are your car crimes?! Heehee.
I bet that the Elfman’s would not have had a problem with the T-shirt sporting a joke about any other religion on it. :-p
Comment by Jannah — May 30, 2009 @ 6:04 pm
What I find sad about all this Jim Warren is that you attribute your “wins” to Scientology as if it was the only factor which made you the individual you are. Could it be that your success has really nothing to do with the application of scientology methods but rather that you yourself had the ability all along for your own success? There is nothing in the scientology tech which cannot be seen in any type of self help programs which basically all it does is create some sense of discipline or focus of your already existing abilities. Scientology is no better than the Atkin Diet program.Bottom line you lose weight because you diet, cut back calories and increase your activity. It’s not anything miraculous, it’s just that we tend to want the quick fix or something or someone to tell us what to do. S
Scientology is just an expensive scheme where you surrender your own self control in search of the miracle cure, pill or solution. There is no “spirituality” here just surrendering oneself to a higher power(or someone in power) to tell you what to do, when to do it, how often, and so on. If you do it wrong then you didn’t apply it correctly. In a word scientology works best for people with low self esteem or lack of self confidence. Jim I bet that despite Sciebntology you still would have been successful. However, having people around to tell you or give you affirmation of it probably made you feel a lot better. The world howeveris not so black and white. There are many factors that can lead to success and no amount of auditing or “magic recipe” is going to guarantee success. If it were that simple the world would not have war, poverty, famine and diseases.
The thing that saddens me here Jim is that your celebrity status has shielded you from the “ordinary” scientologist treatment and experience. There are far to many exscientologist to dismiss their stories as fabrication and mere grumblings from disastified “customers’. David Miscaviges own niece and even his brother are out. Wouldn’t that make him PTS???? Admitting that their could be abuses perpetuated by the very people who you say were helpful to you must be a hard pill to swallow. Denial will not make it go away. Can you examine your morals and ethics and come to the conclusion that as long as it helped me it’s ok????
Scientology as an institution has to change or it will consume itself. What made it so powerful was it’s ability to keep it’s upper levels secret and silence its critics with litigations. The cat’s out of the bag Jim. I really think you’re a nice guy with good intentions but I hope you wake up and get your family as far away from the tidal wave before it hits and leaves you reeling in its wake.
Comment by Mitsu Too — May 30, 2009 @ 7:05 pm
One more gem from the horse’s mouth–LRH said that Scientology is targeted for those with IQs between 80 and 100. Guess why!
Comment by Jim — June 2, 2009 @ 2:20 pm
Jim, if you are still reading, I just want to ask you, do you think it’s right when a report on an ethical problem within the CoS is squashed because the people in charge don’t want to upset a celebrity? If you were at CC back in the mid-’80s, you probably know what I’m talking about. A staff member at CC knew that a 15-year-old boy and his 13-year-old brother were having sex with women more than 10 years older than them (at least one of whom was an auditor). But the staff member was ordered to withdraw this report on this because the kids’ father was one of CC’s biggest celebrities. I bring this up not because I think it’s the worst thing the CoS has ever done–it pales in comparison to, say, the exploitation of kids in the Sea Org and the death of Lisa McPherson–but because it was a case where the people running the place ordered that ethics not be pursued. Can you honestly say you have not seen that or similar things happen–where the ethical thing to do is stomped on for the good of the organization as a whole? Or do you think it’s ethical for an adult woman to screw a teenage boy?
Comment by ms. b — June 3, 2009 @ 11:33 am
I love Jenna Elfman
Comment by Lars — June 29, 2009 @ 11:08 pm
Now nearing the debut of Jenna’s new series, the article in LA Times quotes her as saying:
“Scientology is something that’s been in my life for 18 years. It’s so greatly helped me. Helps me keep the stress down, the happiness up and gives me tools for living a better life. I kind of ignore all the craziness in the press.”
———————–
Not only can’t I ignore the craziness in the press, I can’t ignore the craziness in Scientology either. It is too dangerous.
And I wouldn’t even have noticed it without the Tom Cruise video, their plans for world domination, and a planet with no critics (insert maniac/Cruise laugh here).
Comment by Riczk — September 4, 2009 @ 2:23 pm
I am new here and just want to say that I am not offended by this site. I like to educate myself on the issue of Scientology now and then because the stories I have read in the past just amaze me. Personally, I don’t consider it a religion. To me it sounds more like a self help program etc. The negative stories of this “religion” truly outweigh any positive ones. The one thing that shocks me is just reading L. Ron Hubbard’s biography. The man was a crook. I just don’t understand how anyone would want to follow someone who had such a checkered past. Vulnerable people are easily sucked into brainwashing. I live my life for myself and my family, if people want to live by Hubbard’s teachings then that is their deal. But, I do agree that supporting people who donate to this “religion” should be avoided. But to each his own. The worst part of the “religion” are the stories of the people who have died because of it. Withholding medication, not treating diseases, etc. is wrong. The God I believe in wouldn’t be mad for seeking out help from others. The whole discussion of religion is so difficult to do, people can think that God is just a fable or a magician and that is their choice but for me, the beauty of the Earth and the power of the real feeling of love, is not something that just came about. Where some religions preach the word of the bible, Scientology preaches the words of some man who was a sci-fi writer turned self help guru who realized that if he got people to give him money he could be successful. Not to mention that the guy was a huge drug abuser too. Plus at one time he was married to two women at once. One of his past wives even said that he was basically a nut job. Oh well, you reap what you sow.
Comment by pak31 — September 22, 2009 @ 10:25 am